Flapless Aircraft
Discussion
Brother D said:
Not really all the relevant for unmanned aircraft/drones. They usually deploy a parachute in such circumstances anyway.For manned aircraft, I’d imagine having two engines would provide sufficient redundancy for it to not be a problem. And there’s no mention of yaw control so probably a conventional rudder is maintained.
dvs_dave said:
Not really all the relevant for unmanned aircraft/drones. They usually deploy a parachute in such circumstances anyway.
For manned aircraft, I’d imagine having two engines would provide sufficient redundancy for it to not be a problem. And there’s no mention of yaw control so probably a conventional rudder is maintained.
It appears a rudder or two are maintained as per the picture in the linkFor manned aircraft, I’d imagine having two engines would provide sufficient redundancy for it to not be a problem. And there’s no mention of yaw control so probably a conventional rudder is maintained.
ianrb said:
I'm sure I've seen the use of similar technology before, but I can't remember where. Ether that or I'm really on form tonight as my first thought on seeing the thread title was "eject compressed air to modify flow over the wing".
Blown flaps are a technology that’s been around for decades, and does just that.Sorry, I took "flaps" to mean "flaps". The other control surfaces aren't usually referred to as "flaps" but rather what they actually are i.e. ailerons, elevons, spoilers etc.
On that score, the Wright Brothers got in there first because they used wing warping to bank and turn their aircraft.
On that score, the Wright Brothers got in there first because they used wing warping to bank and turn their aircraft.
They chose Kitty Hawk for their flights because it was the windiest place in the US - so they were using "blown air" provided by nature 
Wing warping was discontinued early on in aviation as it was less efficient than ailerons and other separate moving control surfaces. Wing warping also put stress on the airframe structure which ailerons etc did not to the same extent,.
Blown air has been used on numerous aircraft over the decades. Examples of combat aircraft using blown air systems would be the F-1204 Starfighter and the Buccaneer. I suppose the difference with this new technique is combing wing warping with blown air.
Wing warping was discontinued early on in aviation as it was less efficient than ailerons and other separate moving control surfaces. Wing warping also put stress on the airframe structure which ailerons etc did not to the same extent,.
Blown air has been used on numerous aircraft over the decades. Examples of combat aircraft using blown air systems would be the F-1204 Starfighter and the Buccaneer. I suppose the difference with this new technique is combing wing warping with blown air.
Eric Mc said:
They chose Kitty Hawk for their flights because it was the windiest place in the US - so they were using "blown air" provided by nature
Wing warping was discontinued early on in aviation as it was less efficient than ailerons and other separate moving control surfaces. Wing warping also put stress on the airframe structure which ailerons etc did not to the same extent,.
Blown air has been used on numerous aircraft over the decades. Examples of combat aircraft using blown air systems would be the F-1204 Starfighter and the Buccaneer. I suppose the difference with this new technique is combing wing warping with blown air.
Hang gliders have been using wing warping since the late 1970s. It is known as 'billow shift' and is achieved by the longitudinal keel and the spanwise cross tubes being unconnected to each other. When the pilot moves his weight to the direction in which he wishes to turn, it pulls the keel (from which his harness is hanging) across, thus tensioning the wing half on the outside of the turn and in turn increasing its angle of attack. Simultaneously the wing half on the inside of the turn is slackened and the angle of attack is reduced. The net effect is equivalent to that of ailerons, but without control cables, pushrods and bellcranks.Wing warping was discontinued early on in aviation as it was less efficient than ailerons and other separate moving control surfaces. Wing warping also put stress on the airframe structure which ailerons etc did not to the same extent,.
Blown air has been used on numerous aircraft over the decades. Examples of combat aircraft using blown air systems would be the F-1204 Starfighter and the Buccaneer. I suppose the difference with this new technique is combing wing warping with blown air.
I wonder why they draw bleed air from the engines to make the directional jets? Modern aircraft are doing away with bleed air systems and using electric compressors using ram air?
I suppose if the aircraft gets too slow there might not be enough ram air to produce the directional control, but if the engine stops you won’t be producing any bleed air?
On a conventional aircraft, that’s when the ram air turbine would step in.
I suppose if the aircraft gets too slow there might not be enough ram air to produce the directional control, but if the engine stops you won’t be producing any bleed air?
On a conventional aircraft, that’s when the ram air turbine would step in.
El stovey said:
I wonder why they draw bleed air from the engines to make the directional jets? Modern aircraft are doing away with bleed air systems and using electric compressors using ram air?
I expect the demand for the control surface bleed air is fairly unsteady, and needs to be available nearly instantaneously. An engine is a large source of readily available high pressure air, whereas a dedicated electric compressor would need to be continuously rescheduled to follow control demands.Mave said:
El stovey said:
I wonder why they draw bleed air from the engines to make the directional jets? Modern aircraft are doing away with bleed air systems and using electric compressors using ram air?
I expect the demand for the control surface bleed air is fairly unsteady, and needs to be available nearly instantaneously. An engine is a large source of readily available high pressure air, whereas a dedicated electric compressor would need to be continuously rescheduled to follow control demands.ianrb said:
I'm sure I've seen the use of similar technology before, but I can't remember where. Ether that or I'm really on form tonight as my first thought on seeing the thread title was "eject compressed air to modify flow over the wing".
I know the f16 (I think) had a development aircraft that had thousands of tiny slots on the top and bottom of the wing and used a vacuum system to suck turbulent air off the surface of the wing, making it much more efficient and able to perform minor manoeuvres without deflecting the main flight control surfaces (improves efficiency). It did still retain all of the main flight control surfaces though. MB140 said:
ianrb said:
I'm sure I've seen the use of similar technology before, but I can't remember where. Ether that or I'm really on form tonight as my first thought on seeing the thread title was "eject compressed air to modify flow over the wing".
I know the f16 (I think) had a development aircraft that had thousands of tiny slots on the top and bottom of the wing and used a vacuum system to suck turbulent air off the surface of the wing, making it much more efficient and able to perform minor manoeuvres without deflecting the main flight control surfaces (improves efficiency). It did still retain all of the main flight control surfaces though. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff