The death of motor racing?
Discussion
I perhaps am somewhat over the top with the headline, just to attract your attention, but I had a discussion yesterday on the effects of Brexit on our sport. The machinations of taxation is going to take a big bite out of our cash it seems.
Take for example the Revival and Festival, in both of which I have participated. If today I was invited to bring the C-type (sold years ago before you ask) I would have to stump up 20% of the value as an import tax provision. Yes, I would get it back when the car came back home, but - I don't have that kind of money to deposit. You have a classic worth £500,000? That isn't a great deal of money in today's world, and perhaps like me you bought your pride and joy many years back when it was the square root of not much, but now going to race at the Spa 6 Hours, or the Le Mans Classic to take just two examples, is seriously going to temporarily dent your bank balance. One might argue that if someone has a car worth £10 million he can afford the deposit of £2 million, but even if he has the dosh is he prepared to make that loan to our overstretched government? To me it seems that a lot of cars we now see on display at the major events will no longer be coming. I am not sure just how this is going to work, and I am hoping that someone here can provide more information on the machinations. I mean, surely taking your car abroad for a "holiday" won't incur the wrath of the taxman?
So, I await your input.
Take for example the Revival and Festival, in both of which I have participated. If today I was invited to bring the C-type (sold years ago before you ask) I would have to stump up 20% of the value as an import tax provision. Yes, I would get it back when the car came back home, but - I don't have that kind of money to deposit. You have a classic worth £500,000? That isn't a great deal of money in today's world, and perhaps like me you bought your pride and joy many years back when it was the square root of not much, but now going to race at the Spa 6 Hours, or the Le Mans Classic to take just two examples, is seriously going to temporarily dent your bank balance. One might argue that if someone has a car worth £10 million he can afford the deposit of £2 million, but even if he has the dosh is he prepared to make that loan to our overstretched government? To me it seems that a lot of cars we now see on display at the major events will no longer be coming. I am not sure just how this is going to work, and I am hoping that someone here can provide more information on the machinations. I mean, surely taking your car abroad for a "holiday" won't incur the wrath of the taxman?
So, I await your input.
I’d like to think that the powers that be would have a system in place that enables the cross movement of valuable items without incurring any refundable tax, bit like an “item” Visa.
Common sense I hope would prevail,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hang on a minute,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Common sense I hope would prevail,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hang on a minute,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Not an expert in Motor Cars as Racehorses are my thing but the values of some cars are getting on for the values of some horses so there is a correlation.
Firstly prior to the single market no one had to pay VAT when taking their own motor car abroad (unlike a horse where it was applicable), its certainly likely that the temporary movement of vehicles will be outside the scope unless every single vehicle crossing the channel was going to be subject to a VAT charge.
Secondly if racing cars are not counted as personal transport and are subject to VAT rules there is the existing ATA carnet system for "exhibition goods" which allows movement without payment of taxes
Finally from the UK perspective it is likely that we will go to a post import accounting system whereby VAT isnt levied at import but at the next VAT return and the vast majority of racing cars (or racing horses for that matter) will have departed before the taxes are due.
so there are established ways that will mean the owners are not having to pay VAT at import. It all worked before 1993 (OK there wasn't so much historic racing then but formula one went around europe easily enough)
just my 10 bobs worth
Firstly prior to the single market no one had to pay VAT when taking their own motor car abroad (unlike a horse where it was applicable), its certainly likely that the temporary movement of vehicles will be outside the scope unless every single vehicle crossing the channel was going to be subject to a VAT charge.
Secondly if racing cars are not counted as personal transport and are subject to VAT rules there is the existing ATA carnet system for "exhibition goods" which allows movement without payment of taxes
Finally from the UK perspective it is likely that we will go to a post import accounting system whereby VAT isnt levied at import but at the next VAT return and the vast majority of racing cars (or racing horses for that matter) will have departed before the taxes are due.
so there are established ways that will mean the owners are not having to pay VAT at import. It all worked before 1993 (OK there wasn't so much historic racing then but formula one went around europe easily enough)
just my 10 bobs worth
I'm looking at taking my race car to the US next year for a special event, a new adventure for me. Classic cars are exempt from many of the US regulations about imprting 'foriegn' cars. That's not what the OP was talking about, and such regs between UK and Europe are way down the list of other, more important things - cooperation in science and intelligence to name just two - that have not been considered at all in the headlong rush for Brexit at all costs. Madness, blinkered madness.
JOhn
JOhn
I have it in the back of my mind that F1 races operate under a special tax exemption deal ?
Was a big deal about India withdrawing it a few years back
Surely a similar thing could apply to events such as FoS / GR & Silverstone Classis meetings ?
What does horse racing do when non-UK horses come to take part in events ?
Some of the horses are probably worth similar amounts
Was a big deal about India withdrawing it a few years back
Surely a similar thing could apply to events such as FoS / GR & Silverstone Classis meetings ?
What does horse racing do when non-UK horses come to take part in events ?
Some of the horses are probably worth similar amounts
racehorses from Australia/USA/Hong Kong/Japan are usually covered for VAT buy guarantee letter put up by the organising racecourse so not VAT is paid over. This is the system now.
System for horses from the EU in a possible future scenario will be either through post accounting or possibly Carnets, in the old days we had a "runners bond" to allow them in and out without payment of taxes.
I would think that whatever system operates in my world will extrapolate into racing cars quite well, though I can recall discussions with HMRC where we wanted to know how Goodwood managed with FoS participants and the suggestion at that stage was a "special Arrangement" not available to racehorses.
As I said cars not my speciality!
System for horses from the EU in a possible future scenario will be either through post accounting or possibly Carnets, in the old days we had a "runners bond" to allow them in and out without payment of taxes.
I would think that whatever system operates in my world will extrapolate into racing cars quite well, though I can recall discussions with HMRC where we wanted to know how Goodwood managed with FoS participants and the suggestion at that stage was a "special Arrangement" not available to racehorses.
As I said cars not my speciality!
tapkaJohnD said:
I'm looking at taking my race car to the US next year for a special event, a new adventure for me. Classic cars are exempt from many of the US regulations about imprting 'foriegn' cars. That's not what the OP was talking about, and such regs between UK and Europe are way down the list of other, more important things - cooperation in science and intelligence to name just two - that have not been considered at all in the headlong rush for Brexit at all costs. Madness, blinkered madness.
JOhn
Agreed!! Utter bloody Madness !! JOhn
Back in the 1970s and into the 80s, before the EU and Schengen and whatever, life was pretty simple: a green card, an international driving licence and a few spares, all very easily obtained. No one even looked inside your passport. Of course, our then not so classic vehicles were close to worthless. But the point remains, if we must go back to the 1960s or 70s, why should crossing the channel be in any way more complicated than it was then?
I live and race outside Europe, where cars carry 100% import duty, there are exceptions for temporary import of race cars, free import for the track without a bond, but have to be delivered by a bonded agent from the port and can't be used outside the event, easy enough to arrange the same thing in Europe.
I live and race outside Europe, where cars carry 100% import duty, there are exceptions for temporary import of race cars, free import for the track without a bond, but have to be delivered by a bonded agent from the port and can't be used outside the event, easy enough to arrange the same thing in Europe.
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