Cigarettes worse than drugs?
Discussion
Been a bit reflective this last 2 weeks or so after my BiL, aged 40 with 2 small kids and wife died after multiple massive heart attacks leading to almost complete brain death. 40 might be young but he smoked for 25 years+ and didn't help with a poor diet/a little too much drinking. He didn't look overweight and you would not have thought this would happen to him.
I wasn't sure how smoking could affect the heart but indirectly it does, by making the insides of your arteries sticky and causing a faster build up of deposits.
It got me thinking. Class A drugs are relatively rare in society and fairly well hidden in 99% of places. People know the dangers and most of us avoid them. But smoking and its affects are well know and yet accepted. Every town, bar, office has people outside, pulling away on their cancer sticks. Far more of them will succumb to their affects than people will from Class A. How is it possible that selling these 'death sticks' is still legal? If someone introduced them now they'd be legislated against immediately but we all seem happy to watch others smoke themselves into an early grave. You only need to watch a few videos on cigarettes to be utterly shocked at what they do.
Incredibly I sat in hospital for 2 weeks whilst other relatives popped out for a smoke! If even the death of a close relative from smoking related issues does not stop people, are we massively under estimating the addiction that is smoking?
I wasn't sure how smoking could affect the heart but indirectly it does, by making the insides of your arteries sticky and causing a faster build up of deposits.
It got me thinking. Class A drugs are relatively rare in society and fairly well hidden in 99% of places. People know the dangers and most of us avoid them. But smoking and its affects are well know and yet accepted. Every town, bar, office has people outside, pulling away on their cancer sticks. Far more of them will succumb to their affects than people will from Class A. How is it possible that selling these 'death sticks' is still legal? If someone introduced them now they'd be legislated against immediately but we all seem happy to watch others smoke themselves into an early grave. You only need to watch a few videos on cigarettes to be utterly shocked at what they do.
Incredibly I sat in hospital for 2 weeks whilst other relatives popped out for a smoke! If even the death of a close relative from smoking related issues does not stop people, are we massively under estimating the addiction that is smoking?
Frimley111R said:
Incredibly I sat in hospital for 2 weeks whilst other relatives popped out for a smoke! If even the death of a close relative from smoking related issues does not stop people, are we massively under estimating the addiction that is smoking?
We've known smoking was a huge problem and definitely worse than most Class A drugs (things like Heroin, Crocodil are far worse but aren't as popular). The problem with banning it like other Class A drugs is that its still too popular. It will just go underground where we cant effectively keep an eye on it. Cheap black market cigarettes will create even more health problems as dealers try to maximise profit with cut or substandard products. Smoking is something we need to kill off by preventing people from starting. High prices, education campaigns, so on and so forth all aimed at reducing smoking take up rates and largely it's been working. We've only really been doing this for the last 30 odd years so we've got millions of people who grew up in the 70's and 80's where it was fashionable but beyond that. The fact it's that addictive and we've accepted it for accepted it for so long makes it difficult to stop. When I was born, a 16 yr old in Australia could buy smokes, they didn't raise the smoking age to 18 until 1987. that is how recently we've accepted the dangers of smoking.
Vaping is good, getting smokers off the cancer darts onto vaping is the best thing we can do for current smokers. Even though it seems we're just swapping one nicotine delivery system for another, what we're actually doing is eliminating the other 100's of dangerous chemicals and 40 odd cancer causing ones. Vapers are annoying, but far less annoying that smokers.
Finally, the idea that the government gets more money out of tobacco taxes is absolute b
ks. A myth started by smoking advocates using deliberately incorrect maths and assumptions. The govt spends millions on smoking prevention because it will save more in the long run.My parents are life long smokers. I've tried to get my mother to start vaping but she just wont (I did get my brother-in-law onto them and he's been off the smokes for 2 years now). I'm dreading the day where I receive that call letting me know one of my parents is in hospital or worse and I know it's not going to be that far in the future.
Sorry for your loss.
The cold hard truth is the government would miss the revenue it generates.
I've never understood the mentality of smokers, it's starkly obvious how damaging it can be to your health yet they are completely blinkered to it, I just don't get it. I have tried a few cigarettes myself out of curiosity, did nothing for me, I don't see how you can get so addicted to it that you can happily ignore the health impact.
I'm a big advocate of live and let live, but smoking just seems idiotic to me.
The cold hard truth is the government would miss the revenue it generates.
I've never understood the mentality of smokers, it's starkly obvious how damaging it can be to your health yet they are completely blinkered to it, I just don't get it. I have tried a few cigarettes myself out of curiosity, did nothing for me, I don't see how you can get so addicted to it that you can happily ignore the health impact.
I'm a big advocate of live and let live, but smoking just seems idiotic to me.
Frimley111R said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not sure it is. People don't get drunk every day outside offices, shops, etc (generally!) and it doesn't contain the awful stuff cigarettes do but I do accept it can be very bad/fatal too.Alcohol is the 2nd most destructive drug in western societies, but isn't a patch on the first, which is tobacco. Alcohol is responsible for about 9000 deaths in the UK per year, tobacco is responsible for 96,000. It's definitely not just as bad.
We tend to limit where alcohol can be consumed, in homes or pubs (clubs and similar) because it has such a profound intoxicating effect. Whether this is via the law or just social stigma.
Whilst it's easy to abuse alcohol, it's is also equally easy to drink responsibly. However many drinkers in the UK are binge drinkers, drinking only a few nights a week but putting in an effort each time. I have noticed amongst my younger friends that they tend to drink less and less often than me and my friends did back in my youth (or maybe I'm just hanging out in a better crowd these days). There isn't really a means of smoking responsibly or in moderation.
And I should probably include myself in that as I enjoy a cigar about twice a year.
My uncle died of lung cancer related smoking but he started in the 50s / 60s so can be forgiven, what i can never understand is when i see a 20 something walking down the street smoking given all we know about how it affects the body now. Absolutely totally mental !
ss
Again Sorry for your loss
Just watched my SiL come downstairs, grab a coffee and go outside for a smoke. Then 5 mins alter she's out again. I feel like telling her she's next! So frustrating when the next moment she';s in tears over the death of her brother.
Separately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&t=...
Separately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB-WCX6ndow&t=...
I'm constantly amazed by how prevalent smoking STILL IS within the school leavers age. My partner's daughter is 16. Last month she had some friends over for drinks and food in the garden. More than half of the males smoked and the daughter said they all smoke weed too.
Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
Fastchas said:
I'm constantly amazed by how prevalent smoking STILL IS within the school leavers age. My partner's daughter is 16. Last month she had some friends over for drinks and food in the garden. More than half of the males smoked and the daughter said they all smoke weed too.
Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
Did nobody tell you. You're immortal when you're a teenager. They'll stop before it's a problem. etc etc.Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
Horse. Lead. Drink. Can't. etc
trouble with alcohol and fags is its a slow death and generates a shag load of co-morbidities - COPD/pancreatic cancer/vascular disease - list is massive, most which kill you slowly
You are far better dying healthy so that:
- you never have experience deprivation of liberty
- you are never reliant on someone else helping you to, at and from the toilet or, left to wear incontinent pants
- you don't have to pay a shyte private care home £1,000 per week from the sale of your house to keep you alive and can spend the cash instead on more fun things or passing down to your children
You are far better dying healthy so that:
- you never have experience deprivation of liberty
- you are never reliant on someone else helping you to, at and from the toilet or, left to wear incontinent pants
- you don't have to pay a shyte private care home £1,000 per week from the sale of your house to keep you alive and can spend the cash instead on more fun things or passing down to your children
Fastchas said:
I'm constantly amazed by how prevalent smoking STILL IS within the school leavers age. My partner's daughter is 16. Last month she had some friends over for drinks and food in the garden. More than half of the males smoked and the daughter said they all smoke weed too.
Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
TBH knowledge of what they do to you has been widely known for decades.Why would ANYONE choose to start smoking in these informed times?
Munter said:
Did nobody tell you. You're immortal when you're a teenager. They'll stop before it's a problem. etc etc.
I once saw a top DJ on TV trying to warn young DJs of the dangers of constantly leaning over decks which led him and many others to severe back problems when older. But none cared. As you say, they were young and immortal....As a smoker, all I can say is that it really isn't easy to quit.
We lost my step dad a couple of years back from a heart attack, he wasn't a smoker at the time but had smoked and drunk a lot in his navy days. Bloke was 52 and had a heart attack whilst riding his bike the 10 mile cycle to work.
Whilst all this was going on, I was convinced that would be enough for me to pack in the rollys. 2 years down the line and I still haven't managed it. I use a vape during the day now (go outside once or twice a day at work), but in the evenings I tend to smoke tobacco.
To anyone who has never been addicted to nicotine, I can only describe it as having an extra hunger or thirst. When you crave it, its all you can think about.
Now I only have about 3 rollys a day, more on the odd occasion I'm having a beer. But that bothers me even if I'm not smoking 20 a day.
I'll crack it eventually.
We lost my step dad a couple of years back from a heart attack, he wasn't a smoker at the time but had smoked and drunk a lot in his navy days. Bloke was 52 and had a heart attack whilst riding his bike the 10 mile cycle to work.
Whilst all this was going on, I was convinced that would be enough for me to pack in the rollys. 2 years down the line and I still haven't managed it. I use a vape during the day now (go outside once or twice a day at work), but in the evenings I tend to smoke tobacco.
To anyone who has never been addicted to nicotine, I can only describe it as having an extra hunger or thirst. When you crave it, its all you can think about.
Now I only have about 3 rollys a day, more on the odd occasion I'm having a beer. But that bothers me even if I'm not smoking 20 a day.
I'll crack it eventually.
I dont understand why anyone starts smoking nowadays, two of my kids are on and off smokers and they cant explain either, though not smelt fags on them for a while.
I think Cannabis is a gateway drug to smoking in a way, you need really to be able to inhale a fag to smoke weed, and weed is way more compelling than just smoking but it does teach you how to smoke and get you into nicotine potentially.
I dont see what the pleasure is in smoking, can see the appeal of weed but standing outside sucking on a revolting tube of burning leaves that initially makes you cough and puke, I know like anything you can get a taste for it but I have smoked many times when drunk to see what its about and its generally grim apart from the headrush which you only get at first. Then it seems it isnt enjoying a fag, its about not enjoying not having one so you have to have one.
I dont really know anyone who smoke now, one mate does and thats about it, at work its just generally the cleaners you see huddled in the rain smoking, always seems bizarre that the lower paid workers have such an expensive habit, not sure I could justify £10 a day, one was moaning to me about the cost of getting the bus so must be an issue.
I think saying its worse than class A is possible but they are quite different, just like some can manage to smoke maybe 5 fags a week when they go out or have the odd line, where some end up on sixty a day and a raging coke fiend.
I think Cannabis is a gateway drug to smoking in a way, you need really to be able to inhale a fag to smoke weed, and weed is way more compelling than just smoking but it does teach you how to smoke and get you into nicotine potentially.
I dont see what the pleasure is in smoking, can see the appeal of weed but standing outside sucking on a revolting tube of burning leaves that initially makes you cough and puke, I know like anything you can get a taste for it but I have smoked many times when drunk to see what its about and its generally grim apart from the headrush which you only get at first. Then it seems it isnt enjoying a fag, its about not enjoying not having one so you have to have one.
I dont really know anyone who smoke now, one mate does and thats about it, at work its just generally the cleaners you see huddled in the rain smoking, always seems bizarre that the lower paid workers have such an expensive habit, not sure I could justify £10 a day, one was moaning to me about the cost of getting the bus so must be an issue.
I think saying its worse than class A is possible but they are quite different, just like some can manage to smoke maybe 5 fags a week when they go out or have the odd line, where some end up on sixty a day and a raging coke fiend.
Frimley111R said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm not sure it is. People don't get drunk every day outside offices, shops, etc (generally!) and it doesn't contain the awful stuff cigarettes do but I do accept it can be very bad/fatal too.None of the above takes away from the fact that drinking is detrimental to your health. We all know that, just as all smokers know it.
J4CKO said:
I think Cannabis is a gateway drug to smoking in a way, you need really to be able to inhale a fag to smoke weed, and weed is way more compelling than just smoking but it does teach you how to smoke and get you into nicotine potentially.
Perhaps if you have it in joints, but it's no longer necessary to smoke cannabis to enjoy the effects. There are dry and wet vaporizers, and edibles. In fact, I smoked a joint before I actually smoked a proper cigarette when I was a child, so perhaps that would concur with your theory in this particular case, as it did make it easier to start smoking normal cigarettes.I don't smoke now, but I wish I never started. I was never a heavy smoker, but liked a cigarette or 20 with a drink in my younger days, and you can really tell the difference the next day; as well as being horribly hungover, you also can't breathe properly, which isn't nice at all.
E-cigs are also a funny one. The most I ever smoked on a daily basis was maybe up to 10 a day when I was late teens, but when I started using E-cigs, I used them MUCH more heavily than I ever did smoking. In the end, when I was having problems with my e-cig I just decided to call it a day and have not looked back, although I am sometimes tempted to get a cheap pen version just for a toke when I'm having a drink but then that's a slippery slope.
If anyone is struggling to quit smoking I highly recommend the Alan Carr book - The Easy Way to Stop Smoking.
I used to love smoking and have a sweet spot of 20 a day. I loved it.
The book makes it easy to both stop and also to keep stopped*
I used to love smoking and have a sweet spot of 20 a day. I loved it.
The book makes it easy to both stop and also to keep stopped*
- I must admit a slight wobble where I started again which lead to me rereading the book.
Been trying to get my mother to stop for years. Sent her this gem today as she’s just finished Chernobyl:
https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2008/08/2...
300 chest X-rays a year!
https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2008/08/2...
300 chest X-rays a year!
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