ID cards back again
Discussion
So Charles Clarke is back with the ID card bill..
I've just moved house, and with it changed addresses of bank accounts, set up council tax, changed doctors and a dozen other bits and pieces. Would an ID card have made the process any smoother, or helped 'prove my identity' at any point? No, of course not, though I would have had to send off a new bunch of forms for that as well.
They still haven't decided quite why we need these little bits of plastic (is it because of terrorism today? it must be wednesday). Yet they want to commit three billion to it, expect us to pay eighty quid or so for a card and promise that it will be delivered on time, working, and will have no cost overruns. (Ha!).
The only people who benefit from this nonsense is civil servants who are kept in work by ridiculous overblown projects that will run and run. Jobs for the boys at our expense.
I've just moved house, and with it changed addresses of bank accounts, set up council tax, changed doctors and a dozen other bits and pieces. Would an ID card have made the process any smoother, or helped 'prove my identity' at any point? No, of course not, though I would have had to send off a new bunch of forms for that as well.
They still haven't decided quite why we need these little bits of plastic (is it because of terrorism today? it must be wednesday). Yet they want to commit three billion to it, expect us to pay eighty quid or so for a card and promise that it will be delivered on time, working, and will have no cost overruns. (Ha!).
The only people who benefit from this nonsense is civil servants who are kept in work by ridiculous overblown projects that will run and run. Jobs for the boys at our expense.
Tuna said:
They still haven't decided quite why we need these little bits of plastic
It's centralistic socio-fascism at work. bLIAR has sold Britain to the franco-hun socialist axis who want ALL europeans to conform to their ID cards/exchange of data parameters so that every socialist burocrat in office in the EU can crap on any citizen of the EU from their little ivory castles with impunity..... thats the EU reality!!!!!
Not having one come hell or high water, whatever the consequences, that's that, end of subject. They can chuck me in prison or whatever, mine is going in the woodburner. Whilst it may seem silly for something so benign, it represents an infringement of my choice which I am not prepared to tolerate.
>> Edited by love machine on Wednesday 25th May 11:19
>> Edited by love machine on Wednesday 25th May 11:19
Sorry to sound a little blunt and ignorant here but I will resist this as strongly as I reasonably can.
I am 100% opposed to this idea and can only see the government, whoever it may be at the time, ultimately abusing such a system.
I have listened to the arguments for and against and have to say that I can not remember hearing a single one which would make me reconsider.
Is it not enough to have a Photo card Driving License and Passport?
Granted some do not drive and some do not travel, in which case they could get round this by issuing passports at birth and having a requirement that these also contain proof of address. That should be sufficient to prove your ID.
The whole thing is a joke in any case as anyone with half a brain will tell you that those who we should fear the most will almost certainly have the connections, etc, to obtain false documentation, however clever the system is.
I am 100% opposed to this idea and can only see the government, whoever it may be at the time, ultimately abusing such a system.
I have listened to the arguments for and against and have to say that I can not remember hearing a single one which would make me reconsider.
Is it not enough to have a Photo card Driving License and Passport?
Granted some do not drive and some do not travel, in which case they could get round this by issuing passports at birth and having a requirement that these also contain proof of address. That should be sufficient to prove your ID.
The whole thing is a joke in any case as anyone with half a brain will tell you that those who we should fear the most will almost certainly have the connections, etc, to obtain false documentation, however clever the system is.
rude-boy said:
Passport? and having a requirement that these also contain proof of address.
Passports are NOT allowed to carry a home address, got the jerries all het up when that was brought in by the EU parliament. The same parliament which forced us to use the socialist red passports instead of the correct dark blue British passports!!!
I am fully in favour of them. Carrying them should be compulsory.
They could make a massive difference to the identity theft and identification problems that are only going to grow and get worse.
How many illegal immigrants simply assume new/false identities? If we all carry cards a matter of identity and legitimacy can be established in seconds.
Not having these cards only really helps the frauds, scrotes and illegals.
If you are decent and honest it will make no difference to your life whatoever.
They could make a massive difference to the identity theft and identification problems that are only going to grow and get worse.
How many illegal immigrants simply assume new/false identities? If we all carry cards a matter of identity and legitimacy can be established in seconds.
Not having these cards only really helps the frauds, scrotes and illegals.
If you are decent and honest it will make no difference to your life whatoever.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What details will be required to obtain one of these ID cards?What checks are done on the validity of these details? If I were to get an ID card using dodgy info then my "infallible " ID card opens up a huge vista of oppertunity for me.Can't see where there's £3bn improvement.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm torn between the two camps.
I agree with the points alexkp has made - I think it would weed out the scrotes, and if they don't carry them you can just scoop them up and deal with them anyway - you'd have an excuse - albeit trivial - to start dealing with them.
However, my major worry is this:
-What details will be on the card, and what further details will be available to people with access to the right database?
-More to the point, who will have access to that database? Will the government be tempted to make a bit on the side by passing on details to advertising corporations?
-How easy will they be to fake? Whilst previously, to fake a person's identity you'd need a few forged cards, now you'd only need one.
-How will they be used by the government? This government love expensive technology, so how do I know that they won't start voting electronically with them as swipe cards and make votes for other parties 'disappear'.
-Finally, I am not a number, I am a free man! Why on Earth should my identity be reduced to a set of statistics? Because we all know how 'handy' this government are with statistics. That's how they run everything - to the point where you are a set of statistics yourself. This card will just make that approach easier, and I'm not sure I want that.
However, I do think it will make dealing with criminals easier, so long as they're not carrying a fake one. If you've got a known troublemaker but no evidence, asking them for ID, then 'taking them back to the station for them to confirm their identity' would lead to tougher policing of anti-social behaviour.
esselte said:
What details will be required to obtain one of these ID cards?What checks are done on the validity of these details? If I were to get an ID card using dodgy info then my "infallible " ID card opens up a huge vista of oppertunity for me.Can't see where there's £3bn improvement.
Exactly. By forcing "us" to rely on a card to "proove" who we are, it actually increases the chance of identity theft/forgery.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Here we go Alex, I disagree fundamentally.... It's only a bit of technology and cloning kit will be on the market shortly after the release of the card. Scrotes will absolutely love it
Why should I need a card? I can prove who I am already, as can the majority of us.
It's a government project. It will overrun, it will be over budget and it will be unreliable. What happens when it fails? When you lose your card or it goes through the washing machine.
What about a bit of DB corruption, as happens from time to time? What about if the spotty data entry clerk hits the wrong button? All of a sudden, you're a marked man and it must be true because the system says so!!!!!
What about our rights to freedom to go about our daily tasks with anonimity. This is a basic right of a free and innocent man.
It's being sold as an anti-terrorist measure..... Didn't do a great deal to combat the Spanish bombings.
I can just see Osama saying "right, let's go blow something up" and his henchmen saying "Sorry Ossie, we can't. No identity cards"
I can't see it improving anything. I can see it costing us money and causing us anguish.
The cards WILL be forged. It happens now with electronic items (c/cards), and with paper documents (passports). This will be no differenct.
Further, if someone is clever, they can hack into the database and:-
a) STEAL identities / private data
b) Modify their own data - identity theft via a back-door!
I cannot see a single benefit to these cards. And regardless of other arguments, even if they're more accurate, there certainly is not £3bn of benefit - imagine what £3bn could do if spent on the police force?!?
Further, if someone is clever, they can hack into the database and:-
a) STEAL identities / private data
b) Modify their own data - identity theft via a back-door!
I cannot see a single benefit to these cards. And regardless of other arguments, even if they're more accurate, there certainly is not £3bn of benefit - imagine what £3bn could do if spent on the police force?!?
Identity theft is already soaring through credit card fraud and so on. If ID cards are easy to forge, it does play right into the hands of the criminals.
Also, it's worth adding that Mohammed Attar and the other 9/11 terrorists used their own identities in America because no-one knew they were terrorists. I'm sure the same goes for the other terrorist cells that haven't been busted yet. Unless someone carries an Al-Qaeda membership card, how do you know they're a terrorist until they blow something up?
You can't fight terrorism with a computer.
Also, it's worth adding that Mohammed Attar and the other 9/11 terrorists used their own identities in America because no-one knew they were terrorists. I'm sure the same goes for the other terrorist cells that haven't been busted yet. Unless someone carries an Al-Qaeda membership card, how do you know they're a terrorist until they blow something up?
You can't fight terrorism with a computer.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'll skip over the police state/Nazi comments..
anonymous said:
[redacted]
No, ID theft tends to be an online problem between you and your bank, or other institutions. ID cards will not change this, and will not magically prevent someone from using your bank account online, or through the post.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Biometric ID cards have been in place for immigrants for a number of years now. You'll note how much effect they've had and how well known this is. These cards didn't stop the high profile police murder a few weeks back. The only way ID cards would actually work in this case is if massive numbers of police were to actively stop and question you in the street on a routine basis - perhaps ID checks required at train stations, motorway tolls and so on.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Other than the 3 billion of taxation that could have gone to putting police on the beat, my eighty quid I would have to spend on getting a card and minor administrative inconveniences, you might be correct. Otherwise, you are right that it would make no difference to my life whatsoever.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Bit blinkered this. I may be decent and honest but where are the gaurantees that every person who has access to the ID card data is decent and honest? Of course everyone in government and the civil service is whiter than white, so there will be no abuse of the system whatosever.
Decent and honest people are the exact soft targets who are currently being milked for every penny by the government.
ID Cards just make this process easier, meanwhile do you honestly think that the introduction of these cards will casue the scotes and villains to turn over a new leaf and go on the straight and narrow?
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