Is racing over-regulated?
Poll: Is racing over-regulated?
Total Members Polled: 90
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Why do we need such specific rules in the first place?
Because otherwise if you leave things open to interpretation/judgement you end up with the Ferrari International Assistance situation. We've suffered with that for years & now we're seeing at least some semblance of fairness. It should never matter who the driver is or what effect it has on the WDC - Vettel & Grosjean should be treated just the same.There have been some truly shocking decisions in the past (Hamilton at Spa was totally egregious) & the only thing we should be asking for is consistency, which is what we got on Sunday.
The Vambo said:
Ferrari/Vettel fans vote Yes.
Sane and normal people vote No
It would be fine if rules were also applied to MercedesSane and normal people vote No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Bo_apex said:
The Vambo said:
Ferrari/Vettel fans vote Yes.
Sane and normal people vote No
It would be fine if rules were also applied to MercedesSane and normal people vote No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Aren't options 2 and 3 in the poll the same thing?
Edited by VladD on Tuesday 11th June 19:13
The stewards should enforce the rules as they are written, that's they're job.
The question of course is what the rules should be and whether they should offer leeway or try to explicitly regulate every situation. It's a very difficult question because you either have to have these incredibly binding rules, giving no room for the stewards to use any sort of common sense, or the teams have to accept that more vague rules are open to interpretation and, more to the point, they will have to accept the individual stewards' interpretation of those rules.
Lets not forget that it has been the teams and drivers who have relentlessly pushed the FIA to clarify every little detail of what is and isn't permissible and consequently it is they, not the FIA or the stewards, who have to bear the brunt of responsibility for situations such as what happened in Canada.
Is there a better solution than what we have at the moment? There are certainly different solutions but I'm not convinced any of them would actually be "better"; they'd just have different problems. If we had less rigorous rules you'd have to accept that we'd also have less consistency in how they were implemented.
The question of course is what the rules should be and whether they should offer leeway or try to explicitly regulate every situation. It's a very difficult question because you either have to have these incredibly binding rules, giving no room for the stewards to use any sort of common sense, or the teams have to accept that more vague rules are open to interpretation and, more to the point, they will have to accept the individual stewards' interpretation of those rules.
Lets not forget that it has been the teams and drivers who have relentlessly pushed the FIA to clarify every little detail of what is and isn't permissible and consequently it is they, not the FIA or the stewards, who have to bear the brunt of responsibility for situations such as what happened in Canada.
Is there a better solution than what we have at the moment? There are certainly different solutions but I'm not convinced any of them would actually be "better"; they'd just have different problems. If we had less rigorous rules you'd have to accept that we'd also have less consistency in how they were implemented.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 11th June 19:49
VladD said:
Bo_apex said:
The Vambo said:
Ferrari/Vettel fans vote Yes.
Sane and normal people vote No
It would be fine if rules were also applied to MercedesSane and normal people vote No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Aren't options 2 and 3 in the poll the same thing?
Edited by VladD on Tuesday 11th June 19:13
By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
sparta6 said:
Both Mercedes gained a time advantage.
By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
Has anyone ever been given a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage by failing to lose a place? Not for dangerous re-entry or forcing another car off the track but for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. I certainly don't remember it ever happening. By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
The rules don't explicitly mention gaining a place, but as far as I know the stewards have been 100% consistent in interpreting them that way?
kambites said:
sparta6 said:
Both Mercedes gained a time advantage.
By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
Has anyone ever been given a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage by failing to lose a place? Not for dangerous re-entry or forcing another car off the track but for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. I certainly don't remember it ever happening. By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
The rules don't explicitly mention gaining a place, but as far as I know the stewards have been 100% consistent in interpreting them that way?
VladD said:
kambites said:
sparta6 said:
Both Mercedes gained a time advantage.
By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
Has anyone ever been given a penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage by failing to lose a place? Not for dangerous re-entry or forcing another car off the track but for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. I certainly don't remember it ever happening. By braking too late and going outside track limits Hamilton avoided being passed by Verstappen and gained an advantage.
But no penalty.
The rules don't explicitly mention gaining a place, but as far as I know the stewards have been 100% consistent in interpreting them that way?
Leaving the track and gaining half a dozen car lengths is clearly gaining an advantage.
The rules haven’t appeared for a laugh or overnight.
They will have been created and honed over years of racing and incidents and accidents and cheating and all sorts.
Changes need to be made after some serious consideration of all the ramifications.
Not because someone thinks they were hard done by one weekend.
They will have been created and honed over years of racing and incidents and accidents and cheating and all sorts.
Changes need to be made after some serious consideration of all the ramifications.
Not because someone thinks they were hard done by one weekend.
Bo_apex said:
It would be fine if rules were also applied to Mercedes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Which rule wasn’t applied there?https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
sparta6 said:
How wide?
Leaving the track and gaining half a dozen car lengths is clearly gaining an advantage.
If Kimi was doing it repeatedly he clearly though it was an advantage. Leaving the track and gaining half a dozen car lengths is clearly gaining an advantage.
Anyway the rules actually say a lasting advantage which wasn't the case here because the safety car bunched them back up again on the next lap.
It's a bit irrelevant anyway because that rule has only ever been applied to place gains. The stewards have broadly been entirely consistent which is really what matters.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 12th June 08:53
The Moose said:
Bo_apex said:
It would be fine if rules were also applied to Mercedes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Which rule wasn’t applied there?https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=78&...
Interestingly Verstappen cut the same chicane as Hamilton and Bottas but received a penalty.
2c Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt, the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not. Should a car leave the track for any reason, and without prejudice to 2(d) below, the driver may rejoin.
However, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any
advantage.
A driver will be judged to have
left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.
2d Causing a collision, repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving the track) will be reported to the Stewards and may entail the imposition of penalties up to and including the exclusion of any driver concerned.
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