WhatsApp - supposedly encrypted? Don't think so.
Discussion
My friend made a group chat for our track day.
With a silly name. Nothing illegal inside. But very dodgy name.
Before anyone goes all judgy, I'm sure we all know (or are) someone in a group where all sorts of dodgy s
t gets sent around .......
My friend then added myself and one other person into it.
A week later, all 3 of us were permanently banned from WhatsApp. I'm assuming it's this group that's caused it.
Luckily, being such a world wide and massive company, there is zero customer service outside of automated responses.
That's by the by.
My query relates specifically to WhatsApp claiming to be completely end to end encrypted.
They state on their web site and elsewhere that your messages are completely private and cannot be seen by Facebook, WhatsApp, etc.
Yet - we are banned . The reason given is :
However I'm now going all tin foil hat , as they can obviously read the messages or have some sort of filter that is catching the data.
I'm looking to investigate this matter further , more for my own curiosity as I think they are lying (shock horror)
Wondered if anyone who is tech savvy had any insight into this.
For example are group chats not encrypted, are group chat titles not encrypted, are there filters in the app which catch certain words or phrases before they are encrypted and sent?
With a silly name. Nothing illegal inside. But very dodgy name.
Before anyone goes all judgy, I'm sure we all know (or are) someone in a group where all sorts of dodgy s
t gets sent around .......My friend then added myself and one other person into it.
A week later, all 3 of us were permanently banned from WhatsApp. I'm assuming it's this group that's caused it.
Luckily, being such a world wide and massive company, there is zero customer service outside of automated responses.
That's by the by.
My query relates specifically to WhatsApp claiming to be completely end to end encrypted.
They state on their web site and elsewhere that your messages are completely private and cannot be seen by Facebook, WhatsApp, etc.
Yet - we are banned . The reason given is :
WhatsApp said:
Your WhatsApp account has been banned because your activity violated our Terms of Service.
Be aware that we ban accounts if we believe the account activity is in violation of our Terms of Service. Please review the “Acceptable use of our services” section in our Terms of Service carefully to learn more about the appropriate uses of WhatsApp and the activities that violate our Terms of Service.
We might not issue a warning before banning your account. If you think your account was banned by mistake, please respond to this email and we'll look into your case.
Note: WhatsApp reserves the right to modify, suspend or terminate service for any reason without prior notice, at our sole discretion.
They didn't look into my case.Be aware that we ban accounts if we believe the account activity is in violation of our Terms of Service. Please review the “Acceptable use of our services” section in our Terms of Service carefully to learn more about the appropriate uses of WhatsApp and the activities that violate our Terms of Service.
We might not issue a warning before banning your account. If you think your account was banned by mistake, please respond to this email and we'll look into your case.
Note: WhatsApp reserves the right to modify, suspend or terminate service for any reason without prior notice, at our sole discretion.
However I'm now going all tin foil hat , as they can obviously read the messages or have some sort of filter that is catching the data.
I'm looking to investigate this matter further , more for my own curiosity as I think they are lying (shock horror)
Wondered if anyone who is tech savvy had any insight into this.
For example are group chats not encrypted, are group chat titles not encrypted, are there filters in the app which catch certain words or phrases before they are encrypted and sent?
Pretty much everything you do is monitored. I was having a conversation with a friend over the phone the other day when I told him I had bought a new hover mower and extolled its virtues. The next day he starts seeing adverts for hover mowers... Coincidence? maybe. But to answer your question, yes; WhatsApp read your messages and Google listens to your calls, knows when you are next going to the dentist, where you parked your car and if you favoured the pink or the brown last Wednesday at 22:23 and if the light was on or off.
It's a brave new world.
It's a brave new world.
Edited by CrunkleFloop on Monday 24th June 22:27
If they can read it (which I expect them to) why do they claim they can't, and also, how do they get away with such lies?
That's what I'd quite like to find out...
None of us are sensitive!
The group chat consisted of stuff like "what tyre pressures are we running" and "are you bringing that French piece of st"
That's what I'd quite like to find out...
roadsmash said:
I’m no expert but could one of the other members have reported the group chat and/or one of the members?
Perhaps WhatsApp then took the view of banning you all.
Possibly. But the group was literally my mate Dan. Our mate Ollie. And me.Perhaps WhatsApp then took the view of banning you all.
None of us are sensitive!
The group chat consisted of stuff like "what tyre pressures are we running" and "are you bringing that French piece of s
t"It’s important to note they clearly and explicitly state they do not read your messages (as they do not have the means) nor any content of the messages e.g. pictures, files.
https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/26000112/?eea=1
However they maybe able to see group names (possibly outside of the scope?) and if a group is created with a questionable name it maybe flagged by an automated system. Or the alternative is someone saw the group name and reported it?
https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/26000112/?eea=1
However they maybe able to see group names (possibly outside of the scope?) and if a group is created with a questionable name it maybe flagged by an automated system. Or the alternative is someone saw the group name and reported it?
I understood it as end to end encryption, so it is encrypted on your phone, sent, then unencrypted on the other phone. So 'physically' on the respective phones only as opposed to say text messaging which is stored by your phone carrier on the way through.
If I'm wrong (highly likely) then why predictable political drivel about stopping whatsapp encryption whenever there's a terrorist attack.
I really don't think whatsapp will be worrying about calling somebody's car a piece of french st. Has one of your friends been picked up for something and you've been caught up by group chat association?
If I'm wrong (highly likely) then why predictable political drivel about stopping whatsapp encryption whenever there's a terrorist attack.
I really don't think whatsapp will be worrying about calling somebody's car a piece of french s
t. Has one of your friends been picked up for something and you've been caught up by group chat association? I don't think that WhatsApp servers can read your messages, they are (as mentioned) end-to-end encrypted using a similar concept to PGP (public and private keys). However your names, nick names (and I think group names) are not encrypted, so perhaps that triggered a ban? Although a quick scan on Google doesn't highlight anything.
It really does seem likely that someone reported you, perhaps as a joke?
It really does seem likely that someone reported you, perhaps as a joke?
I can say with 100% certainly that no one reported the group. As I said there were only 3 members (including myself) - again to be clear nothing illegal was in the chat.
Just the name of the group was very very inappropriate.
So the only way we would have gotten banned (and all 3 members of the group got banned at the same time) is due to some automated filter somewhere within WhatsApp-
This is the part that gets me - and the part I am inclined to figure out. They state encrypted messages and obviously they are not encrypted.
I'm busy this week but I intend on making some wireshark captures of WhatsApp and seeing what , if any , data is captured or visible.
As above poster says, group names and user names are not encrypted? Do you have a source for this?
I just know there are a lot of smart people on here who know a lot more than me :-)
Just the name of the group was very very inappropriate.
So the only way we would have gotten banned (and all 3 members of the group got banned at the same time) is due to some automated filter somewhere within WhatsApp-
This is the part that gets me - and the part I am inclined to figure out. They state encrypted messages and obviously they are not encrypted.
I'm busy this week but I intend on making some wireshark captures of WhatsApp and seeing what , if any , data is captured or visible.
As above poster says, group names and user names are not encrypted? Do you have a source for this?
I just know there are a lot of smart people on here who know a lot more than me :-)
Facebook own Whatsapp. The orignal founders quit as they couldn't work with Zuckerberg and his sneaky crew.
Signal/Telegram is what you need. The former has a Whatsapp co-founder involved, and is open source, so all code is available for scrutiny.
https://signal.org/
Signal/Telegram is what you need. The former has a Whatsapp co-founder involved, and is open source, so all code is available for scrutiny.
https://signal.org/
Edited by hyphen on Monday 24th June 23:14
It isn't difficult. You used a fking stupid group name & it got picked up. Why is it difficult to grasp that concept?
They say they can't read your messages; they don't say they can't read anthing else. With a bit of luck your employers won't find out about the group name & you haven't ended up on a watch list some where.
king stupid group name & it got picked up. Why is it difficult to grasp that concept?They say they can't read your messages; they don't say they can't read anthing else. With a bit of luck your employers won't find out about the group name & you haven't ended up on a watch list some where.
Mr Pointy said:
It isn't difficult. You used a fking stupid group name & it got picked up. Why is it difficult to grasp that concept?
They say they can't read your messages; they don't say they can't read anthing else. With a bit of luck your employers won't find out about the group name & you haven't ended up on a watch list some where.
Completely agree why both taking the risk these days of saying something stupid online. king stupid group name & it got picked up. Why is it difficult to grasp that concept?They say they can't read your messages; they don't say they can't read anthing else. With a bit of luck your employers won't find out about the group name & you haven't ended up on a watch list some where.
OP... gonna give us a clue what the group chat name was?
It must be the group name, I’m in loads of WhatsApp groups full of all sorts of filth and I’ve never heard of anyone ever being banned.
What on earth did you call your group?
Looks like it’s in their legal info.
https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/
Acceptable Use Of Our Services
(b) are illegal, obscene, defamatory, threatening, intimidating, harassing, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive, or instigate or encourage conduct that would be illegal or otherwise inappropriate,
What on earth did you call your group?
Looks like it’s in their legal info.
https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/
Acceptable Use Of Our Services
(b) are illegal, obscene, defamatory, threatening, intimidating, harassing, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive, or instigate or encourage conduct that would be illegal or otherwise inappropriate,
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th June 00:51
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