Property Rental
Discussion
Can some one give me some simple pointers?
I have an unfurnished UK property, that is basically a bolt hole if I ever have to return and live in the UK, and 'an indexed link" investment I can leave my daughter if she ever needs to get on the UK property ladder. House has stood empty.
I'm looking to rent it out and would like to use a trusted friend as a property agent, she is close by and her husband is a builder who could do necessary repairs, and has access to certified people for gas, electric etc.
So currently we are refurbishing the house so we can rent it out.
I'll use my UK lawyer to prepare a contract so no issue there, and there is no mortgage.
But my friend tells me she need to do a basic course, cost around 600 pounds. I'm happy to pay for this for her, but I can find any information on what course is needed and what level, I've googled it but get a load of courses at different levels.
Could some one point me in the right direction, I've spoke to the local estate agent and frankly I was not impressed with the level of support they offered I'd prefer to use some one I know who lives nearby and is interested.
I have an unfurnished UK property, that is basically a bolt hole if I ever have to return and live in the UK, and 'an indexed link" investment I can leave my daughter if she ever needs to get on the UK property ladder. House has stood empty.
I'm looking to rent it out and would like to use a trusted friend as a property agent, she is close by and her husband is a builder who could do necessary repairs, and has access to certified people for gas, electric etc.
So currently we are refurbishing the house so we can rent it out.
I'll use my UK lawyer to prepare a contract so no issue there, and there is no mortgage.
But my friend tells me she need to do a basic course, cost around 600 pounds. I'm happy to pay for this for her, but I can find any information on what course is needed and what level, I've googled it but get a load of courses at different levels.
Could some one point me in the right direction, I've spoke to the local estate agent and frankly I was not impressed with the level of support they offered I'd prefer to use some one I know who lives nearby and is interested.
I was just on the phone to a letting agent I work with regularly and they say the basic qualification is a Level 2 Award in Introduction to Residential Property Management Practice - England & Wales.
https://www.propertymarkqualifications.co.uk/quali...
https://www.propertymarkqualifications.co.uk/quali...
Realising this comment is superfluous because you have already made your mind up but...... Things will go swimmingly when you have good tenants whose actions reflect your own standards. However, the last thing you need is someone whose total experience consists of one course managing your property when tenants need evicting or some other high-stress situation occurs. Take a step back and think this through.
Agree with Andy-IM .
You must be so naive or off your rocker if you think what you are proposing is a good idea. Don't do it this way you are opening up a can of worms and whoop ass when it goes wrong.
Your friend - sounds experienced ! What possible could go wrong? too many things to list.
Your friend doing a basic course - like thats great im sure they can also use their considerable experience to help.
Your friend - are they regulated/redress if they are acting as your agent? sounds not.
Your overseas - does your friend understand HMRC regulation for non res landlords and the penalties for getting the reporting wrong? Are they registered with HMRC and have a NA agency number?
Your friend - what happens when it goes wrong ? still friends?
Your friend would not offer to do this if they had any clue as to the risks and issues involved - so you are both clueless. Great combination
Find a decent letting agent who will look after and manage the property when you are abroad. You can still ask the agents to use a preferred contractor if you wish (although your contractor should have PI insurance and be qualified)
Dont DIY with a friend - it will end in tears and cost thousands
You must be so naive or off your rocker if you think what you are proposing is a good idea. Don't do it this way you are opening up a can of worms and whoop ass when it goes wrong.
Your friend - sounds experienced ! What possible could go wrong? too many things to list.
Your friend doing a basic course - like thats great im sure they can also use their considerable experience to help.
Your friend - are they regulated/redress if they are acting as your agent? sounds not.
Your overseas - does your friend understand HMRC regulation for non res landlords and the penalties for getting the reporting wrong? Are they registered with HMRC and have a NA agency number?
Your friend - what happens when it goes wrong ? still friends?
Your friend would not offer to do this if they had any clue as to the risks and issues involved - so you are both clueless. Great combination
Find a decent letting agent who will look after and manage the property when you are abroad. You can still ask the agents to use a preferred contractor if you wish (although your contractor should have PI insurance and be qualified)
Dont DIY with a friend - it will end in tears and cost thousands
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 25th June 12:13
Gotta disagree with a lot of the responders. It cuts both ways with agencies.
It all depends on how much you trust your friend, and how well you choose your tenants
I was abroad and used a mate instead of an agency in London.
I did thorough research on agencies, and asked a lot of questions, and the most important one - what happens if I have a problem tenant who won't pay/ won't leave - and the general response was, after they "try" and resolve the problem it was down to me to get legal. So I thought, what on earth is the point of paying an agency 20+% to basically find crap tenants (the all have a rep for this as they want a quick resolution) who will then overcharge me for call out referrals, to their overpriced trade partners? They seemed to offer nothing as far as I was concerned, particularly as finding tenants with the use of the Internet is a doddle.
I got a mate to manage the house, but most importantly, I vetted the tenant very, very carefully. Both financially, and background checks, including going through her social media.
It was all very easy.
The contract was a template off the internet - very very standard for a shorthold tennancy agreement
Same with itinerary.
Deposit scheme is a breeze.
She paid every month for a year and a half. I then had to sell the house and she dug her heels in. I issued a section 21 notice (very easy again, just get your timings right) and she was gone. Not a penny outstanding.
Not sure where an agency would have helped, and the sad thing about references is this. I have to give her a good reference as a "bribe" for her to leave quickly . Imagine how much that goes on?
My friend is a lifelong friend who I'd trust with my life. I would not lay this on someone I didn't absolutely have faith in. I am also concerned that your friend wants to go on a "course". That doesn't smack of someone confident.
It all depends on how much you trust your friend, and how well you choose your tenants
I was abroad and used a mate instead of an agency in London.
I did thorough research on agencies, and asked a lot of questions, and the most important one - what happens if I have a problem tenant who won't pay/ won't leave - and the general response was, after they "try" and resolve the problem it was down to me to get legal. So I thought, what on earth is the point of paying an agency 20+% to basically find crap tenants (the all have a rep for this as they want a quick resolution) who will then overcharge me for call out referrals, to their overpriced trade partners? They seemed to offer nothing as far as I was concerned, particularly as finding tenants with the use of the Internet is a doddle.
I got a mate to manage the house, but most importantly, I vetted the tenant very, very carefully. Both financially, and background checks, including going through her social media.
It was all very easy.
The contract was a template off the internet - very very standard for a shorthold tennancy agreement
Same with itinerary.
Deposit scheme is a breeze.
She paid every month for a year and a half. I then had to sell the house and she dug her heels in. I issued a section 21 notice (very easy again, just get your timings right) and she was gone. Not a penny outstanding.
Not sure where an agency would have helped, and the sad thing about references is this. I have to give her a good reference as a "bribe" for her to leave quickly . Imagine how much that goes on?
My friend is a lifelong friend who I'd trust with my life. I would not lay this on someone I didn't absolutely have faith in. I am also concerned that your friend wants to go on a "course". That doesn't smack of someone confident.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th June 13:33
RogerDodger said:
Gotta disagree with a lot of the responders. It cuts both ways with agencies.
It all depends on how much you trust your friend, and how well you choose your tenants
I was abroad and used a mate instead of an agency in London.
I did thorough research on agencies, and asked a lot of questions, and the most important one - what happens if I have a problem tenant who won't pay/ won't leave - and the general response was, after they "try" and resolve the problem it was down to me to get legal. So I thought, what on earth is the point of paying an agency 20+% to basically find crap tenants (the all have a rep for this as they want a quick resolution) who will then overcharge me for call out referrals, to their overpriced trade partners? They seemed to offer nothing as far as I was concerned, particularly as finding tenants with the use of the Internet is a doddle.
I got a mate to manage the house, but most importantly, I vetted the tenant very, very carefully. Both financially, and background checks, including going through her social media.
It was all very easy.
The contract was a template off the internet - very very standard for a shorthold tennancy agreement
Same with itinerary.
Deposit scheme is a breeze.
She paid every month for a year and a half. I then had to sell the house and she dug her heels in. I issued a section 21 notice (very easy again, just get your timings right) and she was gone. Not a penny outstanding.
Not sure where an agency would have helped, and the sad thing about references is this. I have to give her a good reference as a "bribe" for her to leave quickly . Imagine how much that goes on?
My friend is a lifelong friend who I'd trust with my life. I would not lay this on someone I didn't absolutely have faith in. I am also concerned that your friend wants to go on a "course". That doesn't smack of someone confident.
so she didnt dig her heals in then? you didnt have to go to court? Did your tenants deduct NRL Tax? exemption certificate? Did HMRC know?It all depends on how much you trust your friend, and how well you choose your tenants
I was abroad and used a mate instead of an agency in London.
I did thorough research on agencies, and asked a lot of questions, and the most important one - what happens if I have a problem tenant who won't pay/ won't leave - and the general response was, after they "try" and resolve the problem it was down to me to get legal. So I thought, what on earth is the point of paying an agency 20+% to basically find crap tenants (the all have a rep for this as they want a quick resolution) who will then overcharge me for call out referrals, to their overpriced trade partners? They seemed to offer nothing as far as I was concerned, particularly as finding tenants with the use of the Internet is a doddle.
I got a mate to manage the house, but most importantly, I vetted the tenant very, very carefully. Both financially, and background checks, including going through her social media.
It was all very easy.
The contract was a template off the internet - very very standard for a shorthold tennancy agreement
Same with itinerary.
Deposit scheme is a breeze.
She paid every month for a year and a half. I then had to sell the house and she dug her heels in. I issued a section 21 notice (very easy again, just get your timings right) and she was gone. Not a penny outstanding.
Not sure where an agency would have helped, and the sad thing about references is this. I have to give her a good reference as a "bribe" for her to leave quickly . Imagine how much that goes on?
My friend is a lifelong friend who I'd trust with my life. I would not lay this on someone I didn't absolutely have faith in. I am also concerned that your friend wants to go on a "course". That doesn't smack of someone confident.
Edited by RogerDodger on Tuesday 25th June 13:33
getting the right tenant is the key and doing suitable reference checks but so is doing the paperwork. If there is a problem and you have to go to court you have everything in place and complied with to get them out correctly and not to endup being fined yourself or not being able to recover the property.
There are so many aspect of legal compliance that DIY landlords can fall down on. 20% !!??? most locally charge 8-10% full Man +vat and a initial set up fee.
Absolutely agree with both Andy-IM and superlightr, OP find a reputable local letting agent, perhaps via talking with a local landlords association. With ever increasing changes in legislations, together with local councils increased powers ,Housing Act 2004 etc., only a professional agent should be engaged to manage another person's rental property.
Suggest OP you ensure you have building insurance cover for a rental property, and you register the property both to prevent property fraud (link below), and with the property's local council's planning portal, the same to notify you of future local planning applications that may affect the value of the property.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/land-registry-l...
Suggest OP you ensure you have building insurance cover for a rental property, and you register the property both to prevent property fraud (link below), and with the property's local council's planning portal, the same to notify you of future local planning applications that may affect the value of the property.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/land-registry-l...
superlightr said:
so she didnt dig her heals in then? you didnt have to go to court? Did your tenants deduct NRL Tax? exemption certificate? Did HMRC know?
getting the right tenant is the key and doing suitable reference checks but so is doing the paperwork. If there is a problem and you have to go to court you have everything in place and complied with to get them out correctly and not to endup being fined yourself or not being able to recover the property.
There are so many aspect of legal compliance that DIY landlords can fall down on. 20% !!??? most locally charge 8-10% full Man +vat and a initial set up fee.
Just telling it how it was. If I had had to go to court, the letting agency would have stopped helping long ago, according to what they told me. So I don't see the difference.getting the right tenant is the key and doing suitable reference checks but so is doing the paperwork. If there is a problem and you have to go to court you have everything in place and complied with to get them out correctly and not to endup being fined yourself or not being able to recover the property.
There are so many aspect of legal compliance that DIY landlords can fall down on. 20% !!??? most locally charge 8-10% full Man +vat and a initial set up fee.
10% -? with full managment? That's not what I was offered 15 years ago.
RogerDodger said:
10% -? with full managment? That's not what I was offered 15 years ago.
I pay 12% for combined full management and rental income protection. If the tenant falls behind its contracted that my agent will manage proceedings until the tenants are removed, whilst simultaneously making up the shortfall. You can see, I'm sure, where the incentive might be for the agent to act swiftly. However, I imagine each part of the country has its own norms. At those levels it seems absurd to me at least to take the unnecessary risks that the OP is embarking on, but each to his own.Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 25th June 23:45
Other side of the argument here: I run a lettings agency and have done for the last 10 years. I started by renting out my own properties and took on other peoples' properties in due course. Have we been successful? I don't know but we have not failed to collect any due rent during the last 10 years and the business is growing like topsy solely due to recommendations (we don't advertise). SuperlightR is right in that things have become more complex since we started but if someone is diligent and careful then I don't see why they shouldn't DIY your rental for you.
The whole friends/business thing is a different question which only you can answer.
The whole friends/business thing is a different question which only you can answer.
I think it would be a very different scenario if your friend had previously worked in lettings/property management but I don't think a basic course will help much.
I would aim to find a reputable agent and do some shopping around to find someone suitable. I say this as both an investor and someone who works for an estate agency (though no longer in a typical front office role).
A good agent will also achieve a higher rent in the first place and generally have the experience to deal with certain issues. Regarding payment, I think it also helps if money goes to an agent as the tenant is less likely to pay late- this has been my personal experience at least. When tenants deal with an individual and not a company you tend to get more sob stories about how they haven't been paid yet etc. and they'll be just a few days late. An agency won't stop this happening entirely but I do find tenants seem more concerned about the repercussions of not paying money when dealing with a larger company.
As a side note (but equally importantly) legislation is constantly changing- can you trust your friend to stay on top of all of this? How must the deposit be registered? By when? What constitutes a HMO? Do you need a licence? What safety features are a legal requirement? What are your responsibilities? Do you know the proposed changes to the S21? The tenant fee ban? etc. etc.
I would aim to find a reputable agent and do some shopping around to find someone suitable. I say this as both an investor and someone who works for an estate agency (though no longer in a typical front office role).
A good agent will also achieve a higher rent in the first place and generally have the experience to deal with certain issues. Regarding payment, I think it also helps if money goes to an agent as the tenant is less likely to pay late- this has been my personal experience at least. When tenants deal with an individual and not a company you tend to get more sob stories about how they haven't been paid yet etc. and they'll be just a few days late. An agency won't stop this happening entirely but I do find tenants seem more concerned about the repercussions of not paying money when dealing with a larger company.
As a side note (but equally importantly) legislation is constantly changing- can you trust your friend to stay on top of all of this? How must the deposit be registered? By when? What constitutes a HMO? Do you need a licence? What safety features are a legal requirement? What are your responsibilities? Do you know the proposed changes to the S21? The tenant fee ban? etc. etc.
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