Sales of Goods Act - item out of warranty
Discussion
18 months ago I purchased a portable air conditioning unit for approx £350, which comes with a 12 month warranty. about 10 days ago this packed up, the compressor appears to work (you can hear it whirring away) but the fan is dead as a dodo, and there is no hot air coming out of the back of the unit where the exit duct/hose goes.
Now, I'm not sure about you, but I don't think 18 months for a £350 electrical item that is used periodically is acceptable, and under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 it appears that, even if something is out of warranty, if the item has not lasted a reasonable length of time then it is the responsibility of the retailer (not the manufacturer) to offer a repair or replacement, or pay for the cost of repair.
I have contacted the company who just insist it's out of warranty and "tough s
t" basically. I spoke to someone at customer services earlier who had never heard of the Act and I asked to speak to someone who did, and he gave me the email address of the head of customer services, and I've emailed them. It'll be interesting to see what they say.
Any ideas as to whether I should be expecting something? I'm not sure, but I don't think 18 months of intermittent use is very good! It's not exactly been used for 10 hours a day every day, I'd say, at most, on average, 3 hours per week.
Many thanks!
Now, I'm not sure about you, but I don't think 18 months for a £350 electrical item that is used periodically is acceptable, and under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 it appears that, even if something is out of warranty, if the item has not lasted a reasonable length of time then it is the responsibility of the retailer (not the manufacturer) to offer a repair or replacement, or pay for the cost of repair.
I have contacted the company who just insist it's out of warranty and "tough s
t" basically. I spoke to someone at customer services earlier who had never heard of the Act and I asked to speak to someone who did, and he gave me the email address of the head of customer services, and I've emailed them. It'll be interesting to see what they say.Any ideas as to whether I should be expecting something? I'm not sure, but I don't think 18 months of intermittent use is very good! It's not exactly been used for 10 hours a day every day, I'd say, at most, on average, 3 hours per week.
Many thanks!
As your contract is with the retailer probably not. however you could ask them if any part of the unit is repair/servicable?
Might be worth contacting the manufacturer directly and appealing to them - they might have a 'mean time to failure' calculation which is much higher than yours has lasted. The point here isn't that a unit should last 12 months or 24 months or 240 but should have an expected life measured in run time or the likes, and from your OP yours has only been used a fraction of it and failed. That's the bit I would probably focus on but I doubt it will help much with the retailer. You could ask them to ask the manufacturer the question of the expected life (not measured in time elapsed!)
Might be worth contacting the manufacturer directly and appealing to them - they might have a 'mean time to failure' calculation which is much higher than yours has lasted. The point here isn't that a unit should last 12 months or 24 months or 240 but should have an expected life measured in run time or the likes, and from your OP yours has only been used a fraction of it and failed. That's the bit I would probably focus on but I doubt it will help much with the retailer. You could ask them to ask the manufacturer the question of the expected life (not measured in time elapsed!)
Here’s your starting point I suggest.
You will have to argue that the goods were not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality as it broke before a reasonable time has elapsed.
It is possible you will need some form of “expert” advice to prove this, which will cost money but should be claimable as part of the action.
If you have some form of insurance with legal cover it’s worth looking at the policy to see if you’re covered.
Usually there’s a process to go through of writing to the appropriate person clearly explaining what the problem is and what you want to happen (repair or partial refund), point out they may be liable under the Consumer Rights Act, when they reply to say they aren’t going to do anything you wrote another letter clearly marked Last Letter Before Action, give them 14 days to respond and if they don’t, initiate your claim online.
It’s easy to do assuming you want to go through with it, although can be a chew on at times.
Good luck.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Public/Ca...
You will have to argue that the goods were not fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality as it broke before a reasonable time has elapsed.
It is possible you will need some form of “expert” advice to prove this, which will cost money but should be claimable as part of the action.
If you have some form of insurance with legal cover it’s worth looking at the policy to see if you’re covered.
Usually there’s a process to go through of writing to the appropriate person clearly explaining what the problem is and what you want to happen (repair or partial refund), point out they may be liable under the Consumer Rights Act, when they reply to say they aren’t going to do anything you wrote another letter clearly marked Last Letter Before Action, give them 14 days to respond and if they don’t, initiate your claim online.
It’s easy to do assuming you want to go through with it, although can be a chew on at times.
Good luck.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Public/Ca...
1. What's wrong with the unit and why has it occurred?
2. How much would repairing the unit cost for you to consider repairing it out of your pocket considering it cost £350 18 months ago?
3. Likewise, how much would you reasonably expect the retailer/manufacturer to spend?
Answer the above honestly and your course of action will become a lot clearer.
If you decide to turn this into a fight have you got the time and determination to see it through? You never know, the retailer/manufacturer might decide it will cost less to pay you off rather than fight.
2. How much would repairing the unit cost for you to consider repairing it out of your pocket considering it cost £350 18 months ago?
3. Likewise, how much would you reasonably expect the retailer/manufacturer to spend?
Answer the above honestly and your course of action will become a lot clearer.
If you decide to turn this into a fight have you got the time and determination to see it through? You never know, the retailer/manufacturer might decide it will cost less to pay you off rather than fight.
can't remember said:
1. What's wrong with the unit and why has it occurred?
2. How much would repairing the unit cost for you to consider repairing it out of your pocket considering it cost £350 18 months ago?
3. Likewise, how much would you reasonably expect the retailer/manufacturer to spend?
Answer the above honestly and your course of action will become a lot clearer.
If you decide to turn this into a fight have you got the time and determination to see it through? You never know, the retailer/manufacturer might decide it will cost less to pay you off rather than fight.
1 - I am not sure exactly, I THINK it's the motor that drives the fan, as the compressor is still working2. How much would repairing the unit cost for you to consider repairing it out of your pocket considering it cost £350 18 months ago?
3. Likewise, how much would you reasonably expect the retailer/manufacturer to spend?
Answer the above honestly and your course of action will become a lot clearer.
If you decide to turn this into a fight have you got the time and determination to see it through? You never know, the retailer/manufacturer might decide it will cost less to pay you off rather than fight.
2 - I'm not sure how much it'd cost, but I'd be willing to spend about £100 I think. Trouble is, I'm struggling to find someone who will actually look at it!
3 - If they offer me a small goodwill gesture of just £50-100 I would be happy
Your last point is kind of what I'm after
You have two years under EU law. Best get in before Brexit.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
Baldchap said:
You have two years under EU law. Best get in before Brexit.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
You're a star, I'll ping them a copy of this link https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
Cheers
First thing... You have no comeback against the manufacturer unless you bought the item direct from the manufacturer. Your claim is against the retailer who sold it to you.
Moving on from that, yes, you're absolutely right that an item you paid £350 for should last longer than 18 months so long as you've used it correctly. An example where this wouldn't be the case would be if it was a home aircon unit designed for occasional use, and you're a company using it 24/7 and trying to claim.
From what I can see, many companies take the view of "ignore people until the initiate legal action, and 95% of them will give up". I've only claimed under SOG, but I doubt the new Act will be all that different. I lodged a Small Claims Court proceeding for both the compensation I'd asked for and the cost of lodging the court claim, and got a phone call back the following day from the previously completely unresponsive company to say they'd like to confirm that if they sent me a cheque for the full amount I was claiming, then I'd withdraw the claim.
If it gets to court and they have to send representatives along, it'll cost them a lot more than your claim, so they'll almost certainly compensate you just to avoid the need for court.
Moving on from that, yes, you're absolutely right that an item you paid £350 for should last longer than 18 months so long as you've used it correctly. An example where this wouldn't be the case would be if it was a home aircon unit designed for occasional use, and you're a company using it 24/7 and trying to claim.
From what I can see, many companies take the view of "ignore people until the initiate legal action, and 95% of them will give up". I've only claimed under SOG, but I doubt the new Act will be all that different. I lodged a Small Claims Court proceeding for both the compensation I'd asked for and the cost of lodging the court claim, and got a phone call back the following day from the previously completely unresponsive company to say they'd like to confirm that if they sent me a cheque for the full amount I was claiming, then I'd withdraw the claim.
If it gets to court and they have to send representatives along, it'll cost them a lot more than your claim, so they'll almost certainly compensate you just to avoid the need for court.
Baldchap said:
You have two years under EU law. Best get in before Brexit.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
That is from 9 years ago and not really relevant anymore. The Consumer Rights Act (2015) gives you 6 years to make a complaint against the retailer. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-...
Been the case for about 20 years now.
BUT
Once 6 months has passed, it's for you to prove the fault was inherent, not the retailer. Before 6 months, it's the other way around. A warranty is between the consumer and manufacturer but has nothing to do with the CRA.
You will need to get an independent report that shows the fault was inherent due to manufacturing defect. You should be reimbursed the cost if it finds in your favour. What you have to remember though is that some products fail due to abuse or other factors not related to the build quality (not saying that is the case here). This is why you need an independent report.
You can appeal to the manufacturer but unless you are inside their warranty conditions, they could just tell you to **** off. Some companies have excellent customer service, others less so. But, as I mentioned, your rights are against the retailer, NOT the manufacturer.
Camelot1971 said:
Once 6 months has passed, it's for you to prove the fault was inherent, not the retailer.
I've had several good successes over the years of getting just out of guarantee stuff fixed, but retailers really seem to have pulled down the shutters on this recently.One of my daughters managed to buy an vacuum cleaner item from JohnLewis that only had 12mths guarantee. She didn't use it for 9 months, then it packed up at 16 months. JL were completely hard-faced and quoted the law at me that I'd have to prove it had a defect present at the time of sale.
To be fair, the manufacturer (Electrolux) seemed pretty horrified. They collected it and repaired it.
Had a very similar experience with Halfords and a TomTom. It was like the email responses were written by the same person - so it's clear firms know exactly what to say. Again, TomTom themselves came good.
Sheepshanks said:
I've had several good successes over the years of getting just out of guarantee stuff fixed, but retailers really seem to have pulled down the shutters on this recently.
The simple solution to this is to pay with a credit card and use s75 rights.These days I ask the retailer once to deal with the issue and if they don't agree, then off to the card company and fill in the s75 paperwork. The credit card companies don't seem to give a damn about evidence, time limits, or anything - do they just recharge the retailer?
The oldest item I used s75 on was a four year old fridge freezer. The only discussion was about how much I was prepared to accept to settle, and that was a "I would like this" and they said "ok".
There's also this on MSE: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consume...
Got to say I like Costco for electrical items wherever possible, their no nonsense guarantee of satisfaction is brilliant. I’ve had a Karcher pressure washer and a Panasonic combination microwave oven replaced by them for becoming defective well out of warranty - the microwave was over 3 years old.
Plus you get your lunch when you walk around.....
Plus you get your lunch when you walk around.....
PF62 said:
The credit card companies don't seem to give a damn about evidence, time limits, or anything - do they just recharge the retailer?
They can, but apparently they typically don't bother. If they did, I would expect many retailers would dispute the chargeback. You make it sound like you're regularly doing this? I've seen lots of comments that getting card companies to agree to do charegbacks can be a right battle.
steveatesh said:
Got to say I like Costco for electrical items wherever possible, their no nonsense guarantee of satisfaction is brilliant. I’ve had a Karcher pressure washer and a Panasonic combination microwave oven replaced by them for becoming defective well out of warranty - the microwave was over 3 years old.
Plus you get your lunch when you walk around.....
That's changed for most electrical stuff now. I think they got hammered a few years ago by people taking back £2K tellys when they'd dropped in price to £500.Plus you get your lunch when you walk around.....
Panasonic microwaves are another item we've had hassle with JohnLewis over. Called Panasonic direct and they just sent a new one. It arrived a bit twisted, so they said chuck it away and sent another.
Well my case has been handed over to someone and I had an email saying I'll hear back tomorrow. Be interesting what they say. Even, say, £100 towards the cost of a replacement or seeing if I can get this one fixed would be good....but finding someone to fix it is the thing! I've phoned a few companies who deal with air conditioning and no such luck so far.
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