Haven't been paid this month
Discussion
Seems my employer has an extreme cashflow issue - the result of this is that some of us weren't paid on Friday
Contract states pay day is last working day of the month etc
There may be an update today(!)
Obviously, the options are to bail out now before it gets worse or carry on and not be paid until they have some cash in either scenario
Are there legal implications for not paying your staff?
Contract states pay day is last working day of the month etc
There may be an update today(!)
Obviously, the options are to bail out now before it gets worse or carry on and not be paid until they have some cash in either scenario
Are there legal implications for not paying your staff?
From my chums in business land, who have struggled at times, late payment of staff is a real no-no.
Its update the CV and get looking, this is “writings on the wall” times.
I had a company do to this to me (by a week), due to him and his wife (another director) being away on holiday. I left him in no doubt as to what I thought when I left.
Its update the CV and get looking, this is “writings on the wall” times.
I had a company do to this to me (by a week), due to him and his wife (another director) being away on holiday. I left him in no doubt as to what I thought when I left.
Late payment to staff is a very last resort measure, as it breaks down the trust between employer and employee. Even if things get back on track the employee is always going to have a nagging concern about whether they'll get paid on time in future, and the knock on effect that has on paying their mortgage, bills, etc.
Until recently Mrs ZS was in charge of the finances of a small manufacturing business which always had cash flow issues. From what I understood, the priorities for paying people were:
3) Suppliers (you might be able to get away without paying them for up to a month without consequence)
2) HMRC (serious penalties for late payment but the consequences are not usually immediate)
1) Staff (fail to pay on day 1, they stop turning up on day 2)
She never got to the point where the staff weren't paid, but regularly had to manage suppliers (and HMRC) expectations. One of the reasons she left was because she could see the writing was on the wall, luckily she got out before it got worse. In the OP's case, it could be they're waiting for a significant payment from a customer, so hopefully you'll get paid soon enough, but either way I'd say it was time to update the CV.
Until recently Mrs ZS was in charge of the finances of a small manufacturing business which always had cash flow issues. From what I understood, the priorities for paying people were:
3) Suppliers (you might be able to get away without paying them for up to a month without consequence)
2) HMRC (serious penalties for late payment but the consequences are not usually immediate)
1) Staff (fail to pay on day 1, they stop turning up on day 2)
She never got to the point where the staff weren't paid, but regularly had to manage suppliers (and HMRC) expectations. One of the reasons she left was because she could see the writing was on the wall, luckily she got out before it got worse. In the OP's case, it could be they're waiting for a significant payment from a customer, so hopefully you'll get paid soon enough, but either way I'd say it was time to update the CV.
This is poor. You dont f
k with peoples pay. I worked for a small company and it was in bad cash status. Pay was the no 1 priority. We were months behind on the rent, suppliers had to chase and chase but we always paid staff.
I think the OP was asking more about what to do immediately. Long term definitely leave as the situation is that bad what chance do they have of resolving it.
I would see what they say later today. Then talk to your boss maybe. Say if there is no clear picture if when we will be paid then I'm off.
It's hard to know. You might get paid soon. You might never get paid
k with peoples pay. I worked for a small company and it was in bad cash status. Pay was the no 1 priority. We were months behind on the rent, suppliers had to chase and chase but we always paid staff.I think the OP was asking more about what to do immediately. Long term definitely leave as the situation is that bad what chance do they have of resolving it.
I would see what they say later today. Then talk to your boss maybe. Say if there is no clear picture if when we will be paid then I'm off.
It's hard to know. You might get paid soon. You might never get paid
Actions depend on. Is this just a one off screw up (did they change a system in the payroll and not get it right)? Or is it actually an indication of a lack of cash.
The former...no great shakes. Make sure to not give that person a Christmas card.
The latter. Start sending CVs out and put the company 2nd to finding other work.
The former...no great shakes. Make sure to not give that person a Christmas card.
The latter. Start sending CVs out and put the company 2nd to finding other work.
It could be an oversight - this happened to me *once* at a firm I was at. One of my guys alerted me and I went straight to the MD, who "spoke" to the finance department. That was a small firm and it was just incompetence - she had ticked a box or something in the banking system so the payment was set to deferred instead of immediate (or the other way around, I forget). As my guy had come to me on the "normal" payday which was 2-3 days before the contractual payday there was no real impact and we all got paid on time.
It also happened at a large firm, to a different set of colleagues (I was unaffected). That was down to big company incompetence - changing BACS providers or payroll system or something and they made a mess of it as is often the way. In that case they paid for all the bank charges people incurred.
I assume you (or your boss) has raised the issue, as you say "may be an update"? If it's a large firm, I would at this point ascribe it to ossified incompetence. If it's a small firm, go see the finance department or MD and ask them to their face. It's quite hard to lie to someone to their face.
Have they done anything else suspicious? Embargoed travel? Starting getting picky on expense claims? Refused to purchase new equipment? Have your been having any trouble getting supplies?
I would count the red flags and make your decision based on that.
It also happened at a large firm, to a different set of colleagues (I was unaffected). That was down to big company incompetence - changing BACS providers or payroll system or something and they made a mess of it as is often the way. In that case they paid for all the bank charges people incurred.
I assume you (or your boss) has raised the issue, as you say "may be an update"? If it's a large firm, I would at this point ascribe it to ossified incompetence. If it's a small firm, go see the finance department or MD and ask them to their face. It's quite hard to lie to someone to their face.
Have they done anything else suspicious? Embargoed travel? Starting getting picky on expense claims? Refused to purchase new equipment? Have your been having any trouble getting supplies?
I would count the red flags and make your decision based on that.
Back in 2011ish I was 2 or 3 months into a new job, and paid late 3 months on the trot...pay was coming in on the 1st or 2nd of the following month instead of the last working day of the previous one.
I was pretty worried at the time, and the company made up some BS excuses about bank issues, but it was pretty obviously down to cashflow.
After those rough couple of months, things settled and I was never paid late again... still working at the same company 8+ years on.
See how the next few days pan out, I wouldn't go running for the hills just yet, but no harm in having your CV up to date and half an eye on a backup plan.
I was pretty worried at the time, and the company made up some BS excuses about bank issues, but it was pretty obviously down to cashflow.
After those rough couple of months, things settled and I was never paid late again... still working at the same company 8+ years on.
See how the next few days pan out, I wouldn't go running for the hills just yet, but no harm in having your CV up to date and half an eye on a backup plan.
I've been paid now. It's definitely a cash flow issue, cupboard is bare - overdue invoices yet to be paid by customers etc
We're flat out for the next month or so, then the sales funnel looks a bit sparse, so time to prepare to bail I think
As other posters have said, don't pay your staff at your own peril!
We're flat out for the next month or so, then the sales funnel looks a bit sparse, so time to prepare to bail I think
As other posters have said, don't pay your staff at your own peril!
One thing that should be done correctly and on time is pay. I had this with a smaller family owned company, it would happen routinely. Would either be the "accountants" fault or the banks fault, week in and week out. Got really tiring and playing roulette with my mortgage and other debits got old very quickly. Left in the end.
Flooble said:
It also happened at a large firm, to a different set of colleagues (I was unaffected). That was down to big company incompetence - changing BACS providers or payroll system or something and they made a mess of it as is often the way. In that case they paid for all the bank charges people incurred.
The trouble is, that isn't enough. Usually if you have incurred bank charges for unpaid direct debits etc, your credit rating has taken a proper hammering. zarjaz1991 said:
The trouble is, that isn't enough. Usually if you have incurred bank charges for unpaid direct debits etc, your credit rating has taken a proper hammering.
Indeed, I was glad it didn't affect me. Had it done so I would have been deeply unimpressed, not least by the time they took to resolve it - large company "not my problem" syndrome. Almost everywhere I have worked they would allow themselves a day or two's grace on the payment date, e.g. paying on the 25th to ensure that even in February they had three "spare" days. Flooble said:
zarjaz1991 said:
The trouble is, that isn't enough. Usually if you have incurred bank charges for unpaid direct debits etc, your credit rating has taken a proper hammering.
Indeed, I was glad it didn't affect me. Had it done so I would have been deeply unimpressed, not least by the time they took to resolve it - large company "not my problem" syndrome. Almost everywhere I have worked they would allow themselves a day or two's grace on the payment date, e.g. paying on the 25th to ensure that even in February they had three "spare" days. Happened to me many years ago with the company that I currently work for.
Supposed to be paid on the 28th but it kept on being a few days later, then back to normal and then late again, in the end I left; 2 years later I was back and have been for 15 years now and no issues at all.
It wasn't due to a cash flow issue it was just the culture of how the pay was handled and dealt with through the hierarchy, it was just poor management and poor time management.
Me leaving actually gave them the boot up the arse to have different procedures put into place, oh and the scathing letter that I sent to the chairman setting out exactly the reasons for my exit; I've been told that the letter is still on my file and occasionally me and the MD have a joke about it (same MD that was there when I left)
Supposed to be paid on the 28th but it kept on being a few days later, then back to normal and then late again, in the end I left; 2 years later I was back and have been for 15 years now and no issues at all.
It wasn't due to a cash flow issue it was just the culture of how the pay was handled and dealt with through the hierarchy, it was just poor management and poor time management.
Me leaving actually gave them the boot up the arse to have different procedures put into place, oh and the scathing letter that I sent to the chairman setting out exactly the reasons for my exit; I've been told that the letter is still on my file and occasionally me and the MD have a joke about it (same MD that was there when I left)
Jasandjules said:
Non-payment of wages is a constructive dismissal event. However realistically if the company is struggling this much perhaps consider whether your future is elsewhere.
The same happened to a mate of mine and his co-workers. A few of them left immediately with a view to bringing a tribunal. The company went bust before any hearing took place. If it was me I’d be looking for something immediately.
Big_Dan said:
I've been paid now. It's definitely a cash flow issue, cupboard is bare - overdue invoices yet to be paid by customers etc
We're flat out for the next month or so, then the sales funnel looks a bit sparse, so time to prepare to bail I think
As other posters have said, don't pay your staff at your own peril!
Pleased you've been paid, but the rest doesn't look good at all.We're flat out for the next month or so, then the sales funnel looks a bit sparse, so time to prepare to bail I think
As other posters have said, don't pay your staff at your own peril!
Your CV needs to be updated TODAY and out in the market!
Good luck!
Like people have said, now is the time to run.
I was in this boat a while (11 years) ago. Received emails saying people were struggling to get money for salaries.
I ended up leaving under my own accord. Others got made redundant about a month later and had to sue to get their redundancy payout.
I was in this boat a while (11 years) ago. Received emails saying people were struggling to get money for salaries.
I ended up leaving under my own accord. Others got made redundant about a month later and had to sue to get their redundancy payout.
Ynox said:
Like people have said, now is the time to run.
I was in this boat a while (11 years) ago. Received emails saying people were struggling to get money for salaries.
I ended up leaving under my own accord. Others got made redundant about a month later and had to sue to get their redundancy payout.
If the company goes bust you'll still get some of your redundancy direct from the government. Depending on your circumstances it may be better to wait it out and get this money, rather than jumping ship first. I was in this boat a while (11 years) ago. Received emails saying people were struggling to get money for salaries.
I ended up leaving under my own accord. Others got made redundant about a month later and had to sue to get their redundancy payout.
https://www.gov.uk/your-rights-if-your-employer-is...
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