Cat & Fiddle - is it possible to exceed 50mph in a car?

[Nigel_O]

I had a pleasant trundle around the Peak District in my Westfield on Sunday - I ended up going over the Cat & Fiddle for the first time in many years (last time was in a tin-top in rather inclement weather, so speed limits weren't high on the list of concerns)

Traffic was quite light and I dispatched a tardy BMW 1 series early on. After a couple of miles, I worked out that exceeding the 50mph average speed limit would actually involve some fairly committed driving on the Macclesfield side of the summit.

There are a couple of straight bits where I held back in order to keep the average down, but some of the tighter bends are enough to drag the average down quite considerably, to the point where a short blast above the limit probably wouldn't have done any damage. Certainly, just trying to maintain 50 would have seen me in the scenery at several points.

So - has anyone actually managed to get themselves a NIP on the Macc side of the summit? (I know that you could probably double the limit on the the Buxton side, and I believe that nobody actually gets prosecuted due to the "shortcut defence" - is that still valid?)

[RazerSauber]

I think this was a bikers favourite and tended to lean towards quicker acceleration for the straights, and taking bends on the wrong side to keep those speeds up. Shame really, lovely road to drive on. But no, I wouldn't attempt to get my car round some of those bends clocking 50+.

[95JO]

I thought the same the last time I ventured up there... I was in my M235i and admittedly didn't have the talent to keep it at ~50mph in some sections, even down to 20/25mph on some of the tighter bends.

[Pica-Pica]

I assume you actually mean exceed 50mph average speed (title!!!).
I have driven over it twice in the last few years. Frankly, the road does nothing for me. I agree it may be a biker’s road though.

[200Plus Club]

Averaging 50mph on the bendy bits would take some doing. On bike the straights used to be prime for bikers to go bonkers, resulting in unmarked plod plus the police helicopter as there were a number of fatalities and bad smashes. It's easier and cheaper to stick averaging cameras up now. Ruined it but still a nice drive / ride with a clear run.

[Nigel_O]

Pica-Pica said:

I assume you actually mean exceed 50mph average speed (title!!!).

That's a shame - looks like a thread title can't be changed - never needed to before now

Hey-ho - most will twig what I meant....

[Sideways Tim]

Yep, I did. On a foggy day with a metal hard top for a Triumph Spitfire in the back of my Volvo XC90 on my way back from Chesterfield.

They don't actually measure your average speed along the section, just your actual speed past two cameras (the ones on the straights), then they add it up and half it. Therefore I apparently traveled the length of the Cat and Fiddle road at an average of 58 mph.

Not that I'm bitter about it or anything...

[Mandat]

Sideways Tim said:

They don't actually measure your average speed along the section, just your actual speed past two cameras (the ones on the straights), then they add it up and half it. Therefore I apparently traveled the length of the Cat and Fiddle road at an average of 58 mph.

How does that work?

[Countdown]

Mandat said:

Sideways Tim said:

They don't actually measure your average speed along the section, just your actual speed past two cameras (the ones on the straights), then they add it up and half it. Therefore I apparently traveled the length of the Cat and Fiddle road at an average of 58 mph.

How does that work?

Indeed odd.

Unless I’m missing something - based on what Sideways Tim says you could go past camera 1 at 99mph and camera 2 at 1mph and not get done for speeding

[popeyewhite]

Yes, done it a few times pre-cameras. Used to play at 50 being minimum speed. It's actually not much easier on a bike, as a nippy/small car is quicker/safer round the corners and the camber is awkward at some points.

[StanleyT]

There is also a quirk,...well two actually.

There is a section of NSL road inside the 50 mph start / end points. I've found my Sat Nav sending me this was as fastest route since the 50 mph zone came in and Google Maps does.

There is also a second loop similar but shorter, with a bit of luck you can just hit 60mph + on the sighted bits of this section. Good overtaking route if you are following a bus over the pass on the main A537, usually about 1 minute / 1 minute 30m quicker than a commercial vehicle on the main road.

There is also a third loop via Teggs Nose, but I think you miss the entry gate speed camera and a lot of the A537 so that is cheating.

There was a case in the Macc local rag a few months ago of someone trying to get the cameras declared invalid as you had legal 60 mph zones within the 50mph section but some of it came off a bit FOTL and I haven't heard since so perhaps not an issue?

[ElectricPics]

Sideways Tim said:

They don't actually measure your average speed along the section, just your actual speed past two cameras (the ones on the straights), then they add it up and half it.

You don't actually believe that's how they work, seriously?

[sixspeed]

Get this average speed camera app. Just tap the screen when you pass the first camera and it will average out your current GPS speed from that point. Great for some of these twistier roads with longer stretches between cameras...

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com....

[Nigel_O]

Sideways Tim said:

They don't actually measure your average speed along the section, just your actual speed past two cameras (the ones on the straights), then they add it up and half it. Therefore I apparently traveled the length of the Cat and Fiddle road at an average of 58 mph.

That’s not how average speed cameras work.

Regardless, there is no way that an XC90 could average 50mph on the Macclesfield side, so you must have been properly hooning on the Buxton side in order to average 58mph. In the fog too? I’m guessing that you actually managed 58mph between two of the cameras on the Buxton side, not across the whole length of the pass

[bluezedd]

ElectricPics said:

You don't actually believe that's how they work, seriously?

Yeah, that has to be a troll surely.

They're a glorified stop watch.

[03slatt123]

its easily done I got caught averaging 66 in an Alfa GTV the 2-litre one not the v6 about 6 years ago.
most of the corners are well sighted so you can use the other side of the road.
yes, I was going too fast but oh well!
I drive the road all the time now and it's amazing how fast some lorry drivers can go

[Pit Pony]

03slatt123 said:

its easily done I got caught averaging 66 in an Alfa GTV the 2-litre one not the v6 about 6 years ago.
most of the corners are well sighted so you can use the other side of the road.
yes, I was going too fast but oh well!
I drive the road all the time now and it's amazing how fast some lorry drivers can go

Indeed. I've followed lorries and struggled to.keep.up

[Graveworm]

I was actually thinking about this a few days back. What distance do they measure? The A24 has average speed camera and I was dutifully podding along on the GPS and cruise control through the bends so plenty of time to think. Depending on which side of the road/carriageway you are on for each bend will make some some difference to the distance travelled and if you were on the inside of each bend, especially on a bike, that could make a some difference. I appreciate the margin means anyone getting an NIP will have been over but if it's FPN, Court or SAC guidelines then less than 1mph could make a difference.

[speedking31]

Surely it's the section between the Cat & Fiddle and the midpoint and the A54 where any family car would be capable of averaging 70 mph?

Edited by speedking31 on Monday 1st July 21:14

[popeyewhite]

The camera by the Cat is no longer there, and hasn't been for months. I thought you guys travelled the road regularly?