One race per week?
Discussion
Would be a nightmare for the teams, but on the plus side it would force them to rotate race team members each weekend and no doubt throw up some interesting and mixed results.
I get the impression this is something liberty want to push towards. I don't think the noises they make about going up to 25 races is the full extent of their ambition for F1.
I'd love it personally. During the season, if it's a Sunday - there is a race. Having yesterday's epic race just a week after the French effort was certainly welcomed and took the edge off.
I get the impression this is something liberty want to push towards. I don't think the noises they make about going up to 25 races is the full extent of their ambition for F1.
I'd love it personally. During the season, if it's a Sunday - there is a race. Having yesterday's epic race just a week after the French effort was certainly welcomed and took the edge off.
NASCAR manage it fine, they race far more than F1 teams do with far less money.
It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
chunder27 said:
NASCAR manage it fine, they race far more than F1 teams do with far less money.
It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
Re-read why I think it could be a good move and you will perhaps understand why it could lead to far more decent races.It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
In fact, everything you have said is exactly why it could make races less predictable.
Pericoloso said:
Even the drivers won't want a weekly race.
FIA would have to find some more totally crap circuits to race on too.
For starters drivers would have 5 weeks off a year for annual leave - but you’d be dictating the slots so what happens if one racer wants a two week ski holiday and another wants 2 weeks chilling in the August sun etc FIA would have to find some more totally crap circuits to race on too.
It would be too much. They could rotate some team members, perhaps the mechanics and the like, but senior personnel and drivers would obviously have to attend every race. They would get burnt out very quickly.
Logistically it would be very difficult. Even now they have to plan very carefully which races they can back-to-back to be able to ship everything from one circuit to another in time. They may even end up having to double up the number of chassis they use - have an odd week chassis and and even week chassis - to give them a chance to ship them back to the factory for the strip down and rebuild they typically to do between races.
It would also reduce the 'specialness' of having a Grand Prix. There used to be a sense of anticipation and excitement while waiting the two or three weeks between races. Even now with back-to-back races it gets a bit meh. If they were every week then I might only watch half of them, and then pretty soon none of them because I wouldn't be following the whole thing anymore so what's the point of watching even half of them.
Maybe consider finding another hobby to fill the non race weekends instead?
Logistically it would be very difficult. Even now they have to plan very carefully which races they can back-to-back to be able to ship everything from one circuit to another in time. They may even end up having to double up the number of chassis they use - have an odd week chassis and and even week chassis - to give them a chance to ship them back to the factory for the strip down and rebuild they typically to do between races.
It would also reduce the 'specialness' of having a Grand Prix. There used to be a sense of anticipation and excitement while waiting the two or three weeks between races. Even now with back-to-back races it gets a bit meh. If they were every week then I might only watch half of them, and then pretty soon none of them because I wouldn't be following the whole thing anymore so what's the point of watching even half of them.
Maybe consider finding another hobby to fill the non race weekends instead?
Also setup would be drastically reduced.
Race on Sunday pack up and head off to next location.
Really need the setup of the kit and team to be there Wednesday first thing for practice 1/2/3
The team and racers would have Monday and Tuesday “off” as their weekends but they would be travelling to the next location each and every normal persons Sunday evening (maybe much earlier flight time dependant). Then leaving following he race on Sunday might mean the available flights are not until the Monday so get him 1 night home off week in week out.
You’d need double the drivers to have an off week.
Heck when are these racers supposed to train?
Race on Sunday pack up and head off to next location.
Really need the setup of the kit and team to be there Wednesday first thing for practice 1/2/3
The team and racers would have Monday and Tuesday “off” as their weekends but they would be travelling to the next location each and every normal persons Sunday evening (maybe much earlier flight time dependant). Then leaving following he race on Sunday might mean the available flights are not until the Monday so get him 1 night home off week in week out.
You’d need double the drivers to have an off week.
Heck when are these racers supposed to train?
Well yes, you're all correct - it would mean sacrificing many things the teams rely on these days. It would be far more like the earlier days of the sport when the driver's were at work for session days and off live their lives in between. The teams would have less time to prepare and strategies, it would all be far more basic by necessacity. Especially with cost caps.
It would be more instinctive, more raw. No more week long PR efforts with a token race slung in at the end.
It would be more instinctive, more raw. No more week long PR efforts with a token race slung in at the end.
chunder27 said:
NASCAR manage it fine, they race far more than F1 teams do with far less money.
It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
The thing with NASCAR is when they added more races there hasn't been an improvement in the racing. They hauler less equipment/resources and far less corporate. Their pitstops are more physical than F1 and use a trolley jack and are having to employ school/college athletes and turning them into mechanics. It just means you have to have more than one logistics operation on the go at once.
Although quite why anyone anywhere would need any more than about 15 races a year is beyond me.
One half decent race and the world goes mad, remember France Catalunya ,and the numerous other garbage races before?
Have a word guys cmon
chunder27 said:
NASCAR manage it fine, they race far more than F1 teams do with far less money.
NASCAR have less kit than F1 teams, typically there is a hauler per car, thats it. The big F1 teams have as many as 10 just for their hospitality/"command centre" whatever you want to call it. The logistics around importation and export of all the equipment would rule out weekly races, there isn't enough time to get kit to a port/airport, unload the other side, clear customs, then be transported to the track.
As it is, for some of the fly away races F1 teams sent stuff by boat ahead of time, its too expensive to fly it all from race to race.
The next issue is commercial. India, Korea and Malaysia all lost their races for commercial reasons, France only regained theirs a year or two ago. Who is going to pay to hold these extra races ? how will they cover their costs (let alone make a profit). NASCAR own (via ISC) the tracks for 19 of the 36 races, they don't have this headache.
They you have to look at the team members, I'm not sure on the schedule now, but a few years ago some people didn't go home for nearly two months because there were a series of fly away races and they just went from one track to another. There is already a shutdown to give employees a break.
A race a week would need a staffing increase. Add to that the cost of hotels and flights to get team members around - how does that work with the budget cap ?
For NASCAR teams the races are rarely more than a couple of hours flying time from base.
Its just unworkable. Even expanding to 25 will be a big headache for logistics and staffing.
Whilst NASCAR haulers do cover massive mileage over the course of a season there is no import/export control. Internal flights are realtively cheap and the team members at the track are fewer than f1.
Its literally chalk and cheese in every aspect.
Edited by Crafty_ on Monday 1st July 19:47
Crafty_ said:
NASCAR have less kit than F1 teams, typically there is a hauler per car, thats it. The big F1 teams have as many as 10 just for their hospitality/"command centre" whatever you want to call it.
The logistics around importation and export of all the equipment would rule out weekly races, there isn't enough time to get kit to a port/airport, unload the other side, clear customs, then be transported to the track.
As it is, for some of the fly away races F1 teams sent stuff by boat ahead of time, its too expensive to fly it all from race to race.
The next issue is commercial. India, Korea and Malaysia all lost their races for commercial reasons, France only regained theres a year or two ago. Who is going to pay to hold these extra races ? how will they cover their costs (let alone make a profit). NASCAR own (via ISC) the tracks for 19 of the 36 races, they don't have this headache.
They you have to look at the team members, I'm not sure on the schedule now, but a few years ago some people didn't go home for nearly two months because there were a series of fly away races and they just went from one track to another. There is already a shutdown to give employees a break.
A race a week would need a staffing increase. Add to that the cost of hotels and flights to get team members around - how does that work with the budget cap ?
For NASCAR teams the races are rarely more than a couple of hours flying time from base.
Its just unworkable. Even expanding to 25 will be a big headache for logistics and staffing.
Whilst NASCAR haulers do cover massive mileage over the course of a season there is no import/export control. Internal flights are realtively cheap and the team members at the track are fewer than f1.
Its literally chalk and cheese in every aspect.
You’d need massive increase in kit, cars , logistics so that the other part of the setup could be going to the other location. The logistics around importation and export of all the equipment would rule out weekly races, there isn't enough time to get kit to a port/airport, unload the other side, clear customs, then be transported to the track.
As it is, for some of the fly away races F1 teams sent stuff by boat ahead of time, its too expensive to fly it all from race to race.
The next issue is commercial. India, Korea and Malaysia all lost their races for commercial reasons, France only regained theres a year or two ago. Who is going to pay to hold these extra races ? how will they cover their costs (let alone make a profit). NASCAR own (via ISC) the tracks for 19 of the 36 races, they don't have this headache.
They you have to look at the team members, I'm not sure on the schedule now, but a few years ago some people didn't go home for nearly two months because there were a series of fly away races and they just went from one track to another. There is already a shutdown to give employees a break.
A race a week would need a staffing increase. Add to that the cost of hotels and flights to get team members around - how does that work with the budget cap ?
For NASCAR teams the races are rarely more than a couple of hours flying time from base.
Its just unworkable. Even expanding to 25 will be a big headache for logistics and staffing.
Whilst NASCAR haulers do cover massive mileage over the course of a season there is no import/export control. Internal flights are realtively cheap and the team members at the track are fewer than f1.
Its literally chalk and cheese in every aspect.
Basically one team does 26 races and the other the other 26. But I think it would be even tougher and you may need 3 entire setups doing 17-18 odd races each.
Cost of doing this would be eye watering IF the standard remains to its current standard. Heck base cost of moving all round the globe sets a floor before even wages R&D bases the cars.
Then add in double to triple the number of drivers per team to make it viable.
Simply wouldn’t happen.
Who would pay the added cost to watch it? Too much on and viewers go meh this one doesn’t matter - imagine 8 GPS in the U.K... as example
ukaskew said:
For how many weeks per year? I'm on the periphery of F1 via several family members and let's just say even as it is the sport takes its toll massively on the full time travelling staff (of which there are many), particularly as soon as family/kids come into play.
I’d day in many ways having a family (as in having sex with your wife) might be so infrequent kids are simply not going to happen. Then no doubt there is be a decent % of employees who are having difficulties with fertility so you need to go every night etc loads of hospital visits etc.
Then again it’s more likely you find your partner in the sport - but the men to female ratio isn’t in the mans benefit (unless your willing to go gay)
Now, Mr D, as a rule, I do generally like and mostly agree with your musings on F1 but think you're a bit wide of the apex on this.
Putting aside the added cost, there is the logistical practicalities. The F1 calendar is largely dictated by a need to follow daylight hours and average temperatures which is why the European races are held in Spring and Summer. Squeezing in more races could mean the need to pack, travel, set up and be ready again in a time that could be entirely untenable without having two teams per team leapfrogging one another; again adding to cost and impacting on continuity.
Then you have issues with customs clearance in some parts of the world.
A1GP tried to do this during its first season and the only way it could work was if the track, pits and paddock effectively became bonded storage areas rather than having to get staff passed through customs. Several races (New Zealand is the one that springs to mind but there were others) where drivers, team personal and others had to present their passports to get in and out.
But lets say you could dial all this out - cars designed in such a way that they could be driven off the circuit into a shipping container and off they go....you then have TV.
F1 is major broadcast content in many regions and scheduled as best a possible to avoid clashes with other major sporting events. Whilst some clashes will always occur, the gaps in the schedule mean it has the headroom to flex where needed. No sponsor is going to be impressed if his (or her) brand has to compete with the European Cup or World Cup Final, Olympics or similar.
And then you have the risk that you end up diluting the sport rather than doubling the enjoyment of it.
Plus, I've no doubt that the drivers are capable of such a schedule but personally, I'd rather a formula where they actually need two weeks to recover from a race!
Putting aside the added cost, there is the logistical practicalities. The F1 calendar is largely dictated by a need to follow daylight hours and average temperatures which is why the European races are held in Spring and Summer. Squeezing in more races could mean the need to pack, travel, set up and be ready again in a time that could be entirely untenable without having two teams per team leapfrogging one another; again adding to cost and impacting on continuity.
Then you have issues with customs clearance in some parts of the world.
A1GP tried to do this during its first season and the only way it could work was if the track, pits and paddock effectively became bonded storage areas rather than having to get staff passed through customs. Several races (New Zealand is the one that springs to mind but there were others) where drivers, team personal and others had to present their passports to get in and out.
But lets say you could dial all this out - cars designed in such a way that they could be driven off the circuit into a shipping container and off they go....you then have TV.
F1 is major broadcast content in many regions and scheduled as best a possible to avoid clashes with other major sporting events. Whilst some clashes will always occur, the gaps in the schedule mean it has the headroom to flex where needed. No sponsor is going to be impressed if his (or her) brand has to compete with the European Cup or World Cup Final, Olympics or similar.
And then you have the risk that you end up diluting the sport rather than doubling the enjoyment of it.
Plus, I've no doubt that the drivers are capable of such a schedule but personally, I'd rather a formula where they actually need two weeks to recover from a race!
Going back to my earlier post, about weekly races forcing change in other areas of the sport - it's important to remember that ANY part of the sport could be changed to make it workable. There is no use saying it won't work because they teams need to do things in a certain way and have 'x' amount of time to do those things. They wprk that way because they work within the framework of current F1.
Many on here, I sense the majority, feel that current F1 leaves a lot to be desired, at least for a lot of the time. A large number of complaints boil down to it being about single teams dominating and it all becoming too predictable. I would have thought that a denser timetable would disrupt that for all the reasons listed in this thread. The reasons it won't work are in fact these reasons it could work.
-Two weeks testing at the start of each season
-Three sets of eight weekly races with a fortnights respite in between each set
-Two further weeks of testing at the end.
Logistics can work, the teams might have to scale back some of the pomp and glamour a bit.
Staffing can work, again, it would need to scaled back from what it is now in order for people to handle the work load - but again... That's kinda the point.
We can still have an open test day at say every fourth circuit, or eighth circuit, whatever makes sense.
FP + Quali can be compressed in to a single day. Sounds like a terrible idea not having FP2 the same time as Quali? Well not if it's the same for everyone and introduces another set of uncertainties. We want to see teams and drivers coping, not just delivering a constant result like clockwork.
Drivers over-worked by this? Not really. They would only need to drive on Saturdays and Sundays, and promotional activity could also be cut to two additional days a week. across the 24 race weeks each season. Even if they spent every other available moment training and/or at the factory, it still wouldn't equal the workload of many other people that don't complain. And the only driver who throw themselves 100% in to the sport time-wise have always done so due F1 being their life and passion in any case.
Once you detach your mind from things 'needing' to work as they do currently, it does become possible to imagine a different path for the sport - without interfering with impacting it's focus on tech and R&D for each car.
Back in the supposed good ol' days, the internal team schedules were not like they are today. The scale of everything was lesser and the track action subsequently better. Compressing the formula in weekly races would force the same result, it's just each team would be free to make the best use they can of whatever time they can find between races. So if a team wants their driver off for days promoting their sponsor then fine - but that comes at the expense of time the driver could be spending contributing towards a development effort. I think it could be a great leveller.
Many on here, I sense the majority, feel that current F1 leaves a lot to be desired, at least for a lot of the time. A large number of complaints boil down to it being about single teams dominating and it all becoming too predictable. I would have thought that a denser timetable would disrupt that for all the reasons listed in this thread. The reasons it won't work are in fact these reasons it could work.
-Two weeks testing at the start of each season
-Three sets of eight weekly races with a fortnights respite in between each set
-Two further weeks of testing at the end.
Logistics can work, the teams might have to scale back some of the pomp and glamour a bit.
Staffing can work, again, it would need to scaled back from what it is now in order for people to handle the work load - but again... That's kinda the point.
We can still have an open test day at say every fourth circuit, or eighth circuit, whatever makes sense.
FP + Quali can be compressed in to a single day. Sounds like a terrible idea not having FP2 the same time as Quali? Well not if it's the same for everyone and introduces another set of uncertainties. We want to see teams and drivers coping, not just delivering a constant result like clockwork.
Drivers over-worked by this? Not really. They would only need to drive on Saturdays and Sundays, and promotional activity could also be cut to two additional days a week. across the 24 race weeks each season. Even if they spent every other available moment training and/or at the factory, it still wouldn't equal the workload of many other people that don't complain. And the only driver who throw themselves 100% in to the sport time-wise have always done so due F1 being their life and passion in any case.
Once you detach your mind from things 'needing' to work as they do currently, it does become possible to imagine a different path for the sport - without interfering with impacting it's focus on tech and R&D for each car.
Back in the supposed good ol' days, the internal team schedules were not like they are today. The scale of everything was lesser and the track action subsequently better. Compressing the formula in weekly races would force the same result, it's just each team would be free to make the best use they can of whatever time they can find between races. So if a team wants their driver off for days promoting their sponsor then fine - but that comes at the expense of time the driver could be spending contributing towards a development effort. I think it could be a great leveller.
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