Discussion
Are there any PHers who use msn messenger, and willing to help me with the occasional silly question such as....
When doing the F# scale right handed, do you start with the thumb, or is it just left handed that you start with 4 and skip the little finger? I can do the left hand, but cant remember what the right hands sposed to be doing (I can do it both ways, just not sure which is right)
Piano teacher is cool, says I can call him anytime, but I usually play late and dont want to bother him at this hour, obviously :D
When doing the F# scale right handed, do you start with the thumb, or is it just left handed that you start with 4 and skip the little finger? I can do the left hand, but cant remember what the right hands sposed to be doing (I can do it both ways, just not sure which is right)
Piano teacher is cool, says I can call him anytime, but I usually play late and dont want to bother him at this hour, obviously :D
Start with your right index finger (finger 2), then go:
2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2
F#, along with C# (of Db as I think of it) are 2 of the easiest scales to finger on the piano. They flow really naturally, all black notes apart from the odd whitey, which is always played with the thumb.
Mmmm, jazz!
>> Edited by timbob on Friday 27th May 00:17
2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2
F#, along with C# (of Db as I think of it) are 2 of the easiest scales to finger on the piano. They flow really naturally, all black notes apart from the odd whitey, which is always played with the thumb.
Mmmm, jazz!
>> Edited by timbob on Friday 27th May 00:17
timbob said:
C# (or Db as I think of it)
On a violin they are very slightly different - the difference between Gb and F# is more noticeable.
timbob said:
jazz
I've hired a jazz band to play at my wedding in 2 weeks' time. It's the very same jazz band I used to play with at weddings and parties about 10 years ago! How times change, etc...
[quote=jacobyte]
On a violin they are very slightly different - the difference between Gb and F# is more noticeable.
quote]
or any non-fretted instrument i guess,
though i can just about cope with the odd string bend.
BTW this will give you a headache...
http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/55edo/55edo.htm
On a violin they are very slightly different - the difference between Gb and F# is more noticeable.
quote]
or any non-fretted instrument i guess,
though i can just about cope with the odd string bend.
BTW this will give you a headache...
http://sonic-arts.org/monzo/55edo/55edo.htm
timbob said:
Start with your right index finger (finger 2), then go:
2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2
F#, along with C# (of Db as I think of it) are 2 of the easiest scales to finger on the piano. They flow really naturally, all black notes apart from the odd whitey, which is always played with the thumb.
Mmmm, jazz!
The million dollar question is "Do your fingers fit between the back keys?" (Mine do
) I've looked at how other people play and it seems this is a serious obstacle. I've got shorter index fingers than my "4" fingers which I reckon is a bad thing, there is a very marked difference in the length of my 4 and 5 fingers which can't be good..... They seem to cut it though.
Interesting link, I've not had a chance to fully read through it yet, but have one question...
I thought a good while ago now that the octave was universally (in the Western world at least) divided into 12 equal parts (equal temperament) to get rid of the problem of Gb being a couple of cents higher than F#, (similarly with Ab and G# etc etc). I'm not a classical musician by trade, and don't know a great deal about the classical string instruments, but do people still play with the old fashioned tuning system and not the equally tempered one? Surely that would create havoc playing in an orchestra with Clarinets, flutes (etc.) that are all tuned to the modern system?
I thought a good while ago now that the octave was universally (in the Western world at least) divided into 12 equal parts (equal temperament) to get rid of the problem of Gb being a couple of cents higher than F#, (similarly with Ab and G# etc etc). I'm not a classical musician by trade, and don't know a great deal about the classical string instruments, but do people still play with the old fashioned tuning system and not the equally tempered one? Surely that would create havoc playing in an orchestra with Clarinets, flutes (etc.) that are all tuned to the modern system?
timbob said:
I thought a good while ago now that the octave was universally (in the Western world at least) divided into 12 equal parts (equal temperament) to get rid of the problem of Gb being a couple of cents higher than F
Choosing it to be so does not make it so - a bit like when the state of Indiana decided to make the value of Pi 4 because it would be easier...
The even temprament is a compromise, where all the notes are 'near enough' in any key, but that also gives some very slightly dischordant sounds in some keys - hence lots of jazz in # and b keys to use this deliberately.
mybrainhurts said:Scales. Its fairly easy to figure out anything which you dont understand based on some rules. Given that its a scale i figured there would be a right and wrong way, wasnt sure which was which, thats all
What are you playing?
Silly buggers, by the sound of it....
UKBob, YHM
Most modern western music uses equal temperament tuning, but as already said this is a compromise and does lead to problems, especially as different instruments have different ways of tuning (brass instruments based around natural harmonics for example).
Fortunately the well trained musician notices these things instinctively and tunes automatically without having to think about it most of the time. Not so much down to "playing in tune" (ie putting your finger / slide / lip in the same position every time) as listening and using your ear.
Most modern western music uses equal temperament tuning, but as already said this is a compromise and does lead to problems, especially as different instruments have different ways of tuning (brass instruments based around natural harmonics for example).
Fortunately the well trained musician notices these things instinctively and tunes automatically without having to think about it most of the time. Not so much down to "playing in tune" (ie putting your finger / slide / lip in the same position every time) as listening and using your ear.
There's no reason why a wind instrument can't be exact. I'm a saxophonist, so I'll make my points relative to that.
The tone hole placement as you say, is a big compromise, so it's a given all the way through the instrument that some notes will be out of tune. But, just like a string instrument, you can change that.
For example, the middle D and E on my saxophones are sharp. They are on all saxophones, so you get into a habit of lipping down a bit. Maybe not when playing the notes in fast passages, but for a D or E of any length at all, I'll lip the note down into tune.
It's the same up top, saxophones naturally get sharper and sharper as you reach the higher notes, so you have to slacken off again. But they're usually flat down the bottom end of the range - needing a bit of lipping up into tune.
It's just like the strings on the violin, where you can make minute adjustments to bring a note into tune - but with your lips instead.
The tone hole placement as you say, is a big compromise, so it's a given all the way through the instrument that some notes will be out of tune. But, just like a string instrument, you can change that.
For example, the middle D and E on my saxophones are sharp. They are on all saxophones, so you get into a habit of lipping down a bit. Maybe not when playing the notes in fast passages, but for a D or E of any length at all, I'll lip the note down into tune.
It's the same up top, saxophones naturally get sharper and sharper as you reach the higher notes, so you have to slacken off again. But they're usually flat down the bottom end of the range - needing a bit of lipping up into tune.
It's just like the strings on the violin, where you can make minute adjustments to bring a note into tune - but with your lips instead.
Size Nine Elm said:
Most modern western music uses equal temperament tuning...
Music doesn't use tuning, instruments do.
Most wind instruments do not have equal temperament, they have a specific natural key. If you play in another key, you get a 'worse' dischordant sound than a piano, which (as discussed) has a compromise tuning.
At least stringed instruments can, when played well, be exact in any key (apart from open strings).
OK, perhaps I should have been more specific - most modern western music is written to be played by instruments using equal temperament tuning. It will sound subtley quite different using different tuning methods.
Given the basic differences in design between musical instruments and how they are played, each copes with different tuning systems in different ways, but each has a certain flexibility (except piano and other fixed tuning instruments) - whether by lipping, moving of hand/slide, or lengthening/shortening of strings.
So there are ways and means, even for woodwind instruments.
ukBob said:
raftom said:
What are you playing?
Silly buggers, by the sound of it....
Scales. Its fairly easy to figure out anything which you dont understand based on some rules. Given that its a scale i figured there would be a right and wrong way, wasnt sure which was which, thats all
The fundamental concept that you fail to grasp is that........
I'm easily confused......
nicecupoftea said:
OK, perhaps I should have been more specific - most modern western music is written to be played by instruments using equal temperament tuning. It will sound subtley quite different using different tuning methods.
Interesting... certainly music is scored using a small number of graphics to indicate notes, but if a piece is written in (say) E major, is the G which is scored the same note as a G scored in C major? There should be a subtle frequency difference to get the 'right' note - which a piano cannot do, but other instruments might.
The different notations of # and b may indicate some different notes, and especially when you have a bb (double flat).
Hairs, split, pinhead, angels, how many?
This is true - the G in G major will sound different from the G in Eb major. Just a few cents, but it will sounds different! Hence equal temperament - pianos compromise so that they can play in every key effectively.
This is why different keys have different "feels" - even if you don't have perfect pitch!
This is why different keys have different "feels" - even if you don't have perfect pitch!
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