VAT Return - Box 6

[snowy]

Simple query with regards to Box 6 on a VAT return

I have always entered my Sales less the VAT I charged, as it states on the return "Total value of sales and all other outputs excluding any VAT"

just doing my first MTD VAT return it wants me to enter my sales including VAT which is correct ?

[Mr Pointy]

Sre you on the Flat Rate scheme? If I recall correctly you enter the gross value (inc VAT) if you are.

[snowy]

Yes I'm on a FLAT rate scheme, 16.5% as a limited trader

[Mr Pointy]

Then I'm pretty sure you've been under-declaring your turnover for VAT. Even though the on line form (& the paper one) said excluding VAT you should have known that if you use the Flat Rate scheme you actually enter your turnover including VAT.

Didn't your accountant pick this up? I'm surprised HMRC didn't flag it as they did when I made an error once.

[snowy]

My total VAT payable to HMRC is calculated from my sales plus VAT, ie box 1, therefore I haven't under paid any VAT, it's just the figure that I put into box 6, with or without VAT is the question?

[plasticpig]

See: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/how-to-fill-in-and-sub...

For a flat rate scheme:

HMRC said:

Box 6 total value of sales
Enter the turnover that you applied your flat rate percentage to, including VAT. You should also include the value, excluding VAT, of any supplies accounted for outside the Flat Rate Scheme, such as the sale of any capital goods that you’ve reclaimed input VAT on, and reverse charge transactions. Also include any amount you’ve entered in box 8.

[snowy]

Thanks Plastic Pig

[Eric Mc]

Flat Rate VAT submissions have always required that the Outputs (i.e. sales) be shown INCLUSIVE of VAT The problem is that HMRC never created a Flat Rate Specific VAT Return form. NORMAL VAT returns have always required that Outputs be shown VAT EXCLUSIVE.

Therefore, many, many VAT traders who are on the Flat Rate Scheme have been completing their VAT returns completely incorrectly for many years.

FINALLY, it looks like the change to MTD has prompted HMRC to remind Flat Rate traders how they should REAL:LY show their Outputs.

[snowy]

Thanks Eric, it's not HMRC, but the software suppliers have got it right, should I speak to HMRC and explain what has gone on?, or just start to do it right now, as there is no monies owing ?

[Eric Mc]

snowy said:

Thanks Eric, it's not HMRC, but the software suppliers have got it right, should I speak to HMRC and explain what has gone on?, or just start to do it right now, as there is no monies owing ?

Technically, you have breached the VAT regulations and could be fined purely because of that. In reality, HMRC don't know and don't really care so I would just do it properly in future.

[snowy]

Cheers Eric