Wiper motor advice ?

[TVRSJW]

My wipers worked fine and parked , then Had nothing on the stalk , the wiper motor bracket had also broken

Fixed wiper bracket , then wipers would sometimes work tapping the motor would see life and wipers work

Checked connector cleaned and re-fitted but still sometimes if you tap the motor they will come to life !

Read up on it and my options are take it apart (never done this !) checked brushes , can’t see it being the worm drive or gear seems more like motor ?

Or replace but they are very expensive had read that you can fit 14w motor with 130 degree sweep looked online but they list part numbers not the sweep ? So have no idea which one ? Someone also removed the wiper motor body in place so not removed from car and cleaned out the motor area replaced and said they worked and were faster !

Again I know if could be this or that but wondered if you experienced TVR folks have any advice ?

[Penelope Stopit]

Bad commutation is very likely the cause of the faulty wiper

Lucas used different gears for different sweeps from the same motor, it's all about the position of the drive pivot point on the gear

[Adrian@]

The 14W is a different size motor to the TVR (so will not fit). The 29W, although the yoke housing is the same, the magnets inside are larger, then a larger gearbox houses a larger internal gear, the park switch is a HD version, the rack is a HD version, the armature matches the larger gear, it has mechanical thrusts and both ends. TVR used two versions 1989-2001, 130 degree with a combined park/brush set/switch which was superseded by the later version again 130 degree with separate park switch and brush set as used in the S series and Wedges...then a 170 degree version for the later cars.
The motor, is sited outside on the later cars (you do not hear people on the Wedge/S forums bhing about the motors as they are inside the car) and so, as there is very little protection from the elements, the armature can rust and it can seize/start to seize, once it rusts, the armature (IF the the arms are left in the upright 'live' position) warms up and then windings over heat and in extreme cases the heat then travels up the armature shaft and melts the teeth off the gears! and commutator will fail. The heat will weaken the the magnets and the motor will run slow (you could of course hit the motor and the shock will also weaken the magnets)! A@

Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 10th July 12:38

[TVRSJW]

Wow brill ! So it’s a new motor then ? I’ve only seen the motor replacements not the whole thing ?

Thing is it’s working at present tested then Sunday and they came on no issues but every now and then they won’t i they don’t budge when stalk activated tap motor “gently” and they start to work ! So it’s irritating and trying to get to the bottom of is it a loose connection or the actual motor spent quite a bit on this car already !

[Penelope Stopit]

A worn out or sticking earth brush is often found if needing to tap the motor to get it going, the connections inside the motor have proven to be very reliable over a few decades

Edited by Penelope Stopit on Wednesday 10th July 13:30

[Adrian@]

For reference (both 130 degree)...the larger 29W gear and the 14W gear next to each other (the previous link has nothing to do with a TVR 29W motor)



A@

[Penelope Stopit]

Adrian@ said:

(the previous link has nothing to do with a TVR 29W motor)
A@

I've deleted that link as it could encourage someone to repair a motor that isn't anywhere near as good as the uprated one you comment about

[Penelope Stopit]

Are these value for money?

https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-m...

[Adrian@]

It is what it is ..a yoke, including magnets, with an armature with integral bearings, and brush plate. It takes nothing else into account, your gear/bearings/gearbox/park switch/rack/rack guide/ferrule all remain the same. It is possible to build it to run in reverse and the heical gears do not like that, so it strips the teeth on start up, whilst then in reverse, the ramp to the park switch does not operate correctly and smashes the park switch apart. Fixed two this last week for TVR people to get them out of the mire. A@

Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 10th July 18:02

[Penelope Stopit]

Adrian@ said:

It is what it is ..a yoke, including magnets, with an armature with integral bearings, and brush plate. It takes nothing else into account, your gear/bearings/gearbox/park switch/rack/rack guide/ferrule all remain the same. It is possible to build it to run reverse and the heical gears do not like that, so it strips the teeth on start up, whilst then in reverse, the ramp to the park switch does not operate correctly and smashes the park switch apart. Fixed two this last week for TVR people to get them out of the mire. A@

Edited by Adrian@ on Wednesday 10th July 17:56

Thanks for this

Yes I know any motor can be reversed with a little effort. The thing is who would connect a motor incorrectly to reverse it?
Surely if the wiring instructions with the motor are followed then warranty would cover incorrect internal brush wiring that has caused incorrect rotation of the motor

I wonder what TVR Parts have to say about this scenario?

[Adrian@]

Penelope Stopit said:

Thanks for this

Yes I know any motor can be reversed with a little effort. The thing is who would connect a motor incorrectly to reverse it?
Surely if the wiring instructions with the motor are followed then warranty would cover incorrect internal brush wiring that has caused incorrect rotation of the motor

I wonder what TVR Parts have to say about this scenario?

It has been explain through with them in the dim distance past. I did ask them for components of the kit this last week (which they do not sell) as someone had built it leaving the original top bearing in (it gets removed) and it burnt out the armature, whilst being canted in the gearbox. They do not need to wire it incorrectly to reverse it. A@

[ChimpOnGas]

Penelope Stopit said:

Are these value for money?

https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-m...

Crikey that's £175 plus carriage

It must be one very special wiper motor!

[Penelope Stopit]

Adrian@ said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Thanks for this

Yes I know any motor can be reversed with a little effort. The thing is who would connect a motor incorrectly to reverse it?
Surely if the wiring instructions with the motor are followed then warranty would cover incorrect internal brush wiring that has caused incorrect rotation of the motor

I wonder what TVR Parts have to say about this scenario?

It has been explain through with them in the dim distance past. I did ask them for components of the kit this last week (which they do not sell) as someone had built it leaving the original top bearing in (it gets removed) and it burnt out the armature, whilst being canted in the gearbox. They do not need to wire it incorrectly to reverse it. A@

Who would believe that a company supplies wiper motors incorrectly built so as to rotate in the wrong direction?

I now do

Thank you once again for your time and information

Off topic but, the Lucas DR3 wiper motor would reverse and then park the blades at the very bottom of the windscreen. When wiping the sweep would not go to the bottom of the windscreen but higher up

You've now got me thinking about how good the gears were in the Lucas DR3, they lasted a long time for operating with both rotations

As for wiring them and fault finding, they were not for the faint hearted

I appreciate you may or may not know about the above

[Adrian@]

It is my understanding that the DR3 (I have built them for early TVR's, as the '60s SE Griffiths had two speed wipers but not the reverse park system) does not rotate backwards, it is all in the conrod mechanism with a special rack which pulls the arms 'reverse parks' onto plinths (to stop the rubber blades from touching the screen). I have seen them as I needed core to work on the motors.
As for the gears ...I have 1000 plus of them made of the exact same material, by the same company that made them for Lucas, SO, there nothing wrong with the gear material for it running the correct direction on the OE spec system and new armature/magnet/yoke, heat will destroy it, BUT by that time you have been lucky not to lose the car! IF you look and see TVR car fires ...passenger side screens damage will be the wiper motor..drivers side screen will be the fuel lines/starter motor solenoid (biggest switch in the car). A@

Edited by Adrian@ on Thursday 11th July 12:33

[Belle427]

ChimpOnGas said:

Penelope Stopit said:

Are these value for money?

https://tvr-parts.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tvr-m...

Crikey that's £175 plus carriage

It must be one very special wiper motor!

I bit the bullet and bought one and it really improves the speeds.
Hated the standard wipers so its a big improvement.

[Adrian@]

Belle427 said:

I bit the bullet and bought one and it really improves the speeds.
Hated the standard wipers so its a big improvement.

I think, and good advice, would be that an OE motor built with new magnets, painted internal yoke and Epoxylite coated rewound armature with new commutator would see the same speed difference. I do not see that much difference in the OE sintered metal bearings (as fitted to millions of wiper motors) verses the sealed 10mm deep groove bearing that the new unit uses, both work equally well. A@

[Penelope Stopit]

Adrian@ said:

I think, and good advice, would be that an OE motor built with new magnets, painted internal yoke and Epoxylite coated rewound armature with new commutator would see the same speed difference. I do not see that much difference in the OE sintered metal bearings (as fitted to millions of wiper motors) verses the sealed 10mm deep groove bearing that the new unit uses, both work equally well. A@

The thing is, when people change the wiper motor they will very likely lubricate the rack, tubes and wheel-boxes which will also increase the speed, hence it is sometimes difficult to prove how much of the increase in speed has come from a new motor or the lubricating of moving parts

[Belle427]

I can guarantee the Tvr parts wiper motor really is night and day, probably the single best mod I've done to the car.
Expensive but should last the life of the car in most cases.