GT4 dilemma - 981 now or 718 in 2020?
Discussion
So was literally just about to 'pull the plug' on a 981 GT4. (Coming from a 981 CS)
But these recent reviews of the 718 have given me pause and I'm now wondering whether to 'hold fire' and hope that I'm able to place an order with my local OPC for a 2020 delivery. (If the claims re. extended allocation are true)
On the 981 side, a budget of around £75k - £80k will return a low mileage / well-optioned example with some of the 'nice to haves.'
On the 718 side, I would imagine that a similar spec will be around £85k - £90k, although I'm guessing so am happy to be corrected.
So let's call it a £10k difference, new model versus previous gen and with the 718 also 'improved' in a number of areas.
So the question is do I get in to a 981 now and potentially pay over the odds based on where those prices might settle from hereon in as the greater availability of the 718 and less speculation attracts more buyers to the newer car, even if they have to wait.
Or is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
But these recent reviews of the 718 have given me pause and I'm now wondering whether to 'hold fire' and hope that I'm able to place an order with my local OPC for a 2020 delivery. (If the claims re. extended allocation are true)
On the 981 side, a budget of around £75k - £80k will return a low mileage / well-optioned example with some of the 'nice to haves.'
On the 718 side, I would imagine that a similar spec will be around £85k - £90k, although I'm guessing so am happy to be corrected.
So let's call it a £10k difference, new model versus previous gen and with the 718 also 'improved' in a number of areas.
So the question is do I get in to a 981 now and potentially pay over the odds based on where those prices might settle from hereon in as the greater availability of the 718 and less speculation attracts more buyers to the newer car, even if they have to wait.
Or is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
CrashBang said:
You will be waiting a long time! - How predictable for you to be talking down values of cars you dont own.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/cayman/porsche-cayman-981-gt4-------------------2015/9691921£68k and stuck, with price drops every week.
you need to face a few simple facts regarding prices going into winter and the current flooding of GT type products with a record 101 cars on the OPC site now with very few buyers because of new GT products available.
my cars dropped £40k in 18 months and I moaning, ! people keep taking the piss my cars dropping but who cares ? only the people taking the piss it seems and there is no shortage of those.
I will say it my self, my cars dropping in price, So is yours and every one else's.
JustCallMeMac said:
So was literally just about to 'pull the plug' on a 981 GT4. (Coming from a 981 CS)
Or is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
Wait until 2021 and then get the 718E. I am sure the last 718 petrol car will be best in class but for the sake of a year I would wait for the 718EOr is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
Not quite what you want to hear but I would keep hold of your S. Once you get over the initial buzz from owning the GT4 I think you might miss the S. The engine spins more freely and it sounds better. The steering in the GT4 is sharper, the brakes are awesome and the suspension can take anything you demand of it (and more). I just think the S is more than the sum of its parts. It's the better road car IMHO. If you're looking to do track days then ignore all of the above and get the GT4!
Heathrow said:
Not quite what you want to hear but I would keep hold of your S. Once you get over the initial buzz from owning the GT4 I think you might miss the S. The engine spins more freely and it sounds better. The steering in the GT4 is sharper, the brakes are awesome and the suspension can take anything you demand of it (and more). I just think the S is more than the sum of its parts. It's the better road car IMHO. If you're looking to do track days then ignore all of the above and get the GT4!
On the contrary and you make a very, very valid point, which is certainly appreciated. Are you basing your comment on your own direct experience? After I take my CS out I often ask myself what more would I actually want for driving on UK roads. It goes and handles well enough, I love the immediacy of that NA engine and the balance of the thing, it sounds fantastic and is comfortable, practical and easy to live with. (No concerns about speed bumps etc here) It's also extremely well-optioned and I've recently put my own stamp on it in a number of areas both cosmetically and in terms of driver improvements. (E.g. GT4 short-shift)
So I admit that I'm actually struggling with the idea of spending an additional £40k approx to upgrade to a well-optioned 981 GT4 or circa £55k to get in to a 718, built to more-or less the same spec. The 'man maths' isn't really the issue here though. It's the real-world, 'day-to-day experience once that 'buzz' you mention wears off and a few realities are faced that romantic reviews of the GT4 blasting across country on scenic empty roads do not portray.
So whilst the 981 S is clearly a good few rungs below a GT4 in lots of ways, as an everyday proposition in this country, does it and its GTS bigger brother actually make more sense?
Or will scratching that GT itch win in the end?
It's even more of a dilemma than I first thought!
JustCallMeMac said:
So whilst the 981 S is clearly a good few rungs below a GT4 in lots of ways, as an everyday proposition in this country, does it and its GTS bigger brother actually make more sense?
Unless you have plenty of cash to spare, need to pose around in a winged GT car or drive regularly on track, you can easily argue that your current car is more than enough fun on the road. With more traffic and worsening road surfaces the opportunities to use the extra speed and handling of a GT4 are few and far between.I own a 981 GTS and I considered switching into a GT4 so paid to drive one at PEC. Having done that I found the GT4 wasn't a massive step forwards for my road-only driving. My thoughts are here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I've been following the 718 GT4 development since inception just in case the new car proved to be a step again which would justify the change, but now knowing the details I don't think it is. I'm sticking with my 981.
A nice optioned new 718 GT4 will be £85-90k next year, if you can get one. There will be a 10% Brexit surcharge. So nigh on £100k car from new with 1st year tax on top as well. Because of this I don't see 981 prices falling too drastically and if you can pick up a 981 for circa £70k from an OPC that's £30k less than the new car which has got to be good value.
From what I can see the only real benefit of the new car is more downforce. The 718 doesn't sound as good as the 981, doesn't look as good (IMHO), is heavier and has similar performance figures (10 sec's faster round the N'ring) 7:30 as opposed to 7:40. 2.2% quicker all down to downforce as the 0-60 is identical. I don't think the 40% premium for a 718 over a 981 is worth a 2.2% performance advantage.
Saying all that its a tough choice, specifying your own car from new exactly how you want it is a wonderful experience, if you can justify the premium. Personally I think the 981 Spyder is the sweet spot, rarer and better suited to UK roads and only 7 for sale on PH and 0 on AutoTrader.
From what I can see the only real benefit of the new car is more downforce. The 718 doesn't sound as good as the 981, doesn't look as good (IMHO), is heavier and has similar performance figures (10 sec's faster round the N'ring) 7:30 as opposed to 7:40. 2.2% quicker all down to downforce as the 0-60 is identical. I don't think the 40% premium for a 718 over a 981 is worth a 2.2% performance advantage.
Saying all that its a tough choice, specifying your own car from new exactly how you want it is a wonderful experience, if you can justify the premium. Personally I think the 981 Spyder is the sweet spot, rarer and better suited to UK roads and only 7 for sale on PH and 0 on AutoTrader.
Bispal said:
From what I can see the only real benefit of the new car is more downforce. The 718 doesn't sound as good as the 981, doesn't look as good (IMHO), is heavier and has similar performance figures (10 sec's faster round the N'ring) 7:30 as opposed to 7:40. 2.2% quicker all down to downforce as the 0-60 is identical. I don't think the 40% premium for a 718 over a 981 is worth a 2.2% performance advantage.
Most of the N’Ring improvement is actually down to the N2 tyre and new surface, if you read the reviews completely. Oh...those tyres are same fitment as the ‘old car’, so guess what....
Of course the laps might feel a bit different even with the cars on the same tyre.... 718 will likely be a bit more clinical. 981 bit more edgy. This will be down any aero and steering tweaks.
Edited by TDT on Tuesday 16th July 13:29
Bispal said:
A nice optioned new 718 GT4 will be £85-90k next year, if you can get one. There will be a 10% Brexit surcharge. So nigh on £100k car from new with 1st year tax on top as well. Because of this I don't see 981 prices falling too drastically and if you can pick up a 981 for circa £70k from an OPC that's £30k less than the new car which has got to be good value.
From what I can see the only real benefit of the new car is more downforce. The 718 doesn't sound as good as the 981, doesn't look as good (IMHO), is heavier and has similar performance figures (10 sec's faster round the N'ring) 7:30 as opposed to 7:40. 2.2% quicker all down to downforce as the 0-60 is identical. I don't think the 40% premium for a 718 over a 981 is worth a 2.2% performance advantage.
Saying all that its a tough choice, specifying your own car from new exactly how you want it is a wonderful experience, if you can justify the premium. Personally I think the 981 Spyder is the sweet spot, rarer and better suited to UK roads and only 7 for sale on PH and 0 on AutoTrader.
You havent taken i to account new to Porsche and people who didnt get a 981 gt4 . To them it doesnt make any difference if there are only marginal gains?From what I can see the only real benefit of the new car is more downforce. The 718 doesn't sound as good as the 981, doesn't look as good (IMHO), is heavier and has similar performance figures (10 sec's faster round the N'ring) 7:30 as opposed to 7:40. 2.2% quicker all down to downforce as the 0-60 is identical. I don't think the 40% premium for a 718 over a 981 is worth a 2.2% performance advantage.
Saying all that its a tough choice, specifying your own car from new exactly how you want it is a wonderful experience, if you can justify the premium. Personally I think the 981 Spyder is the sweet spot, rarer and better suited to UK roads and only 7 for sale on PH and 0 on AutoTrader.
JustCallMeMac said:
So the question is do I get in to a 981 now and potentially pay over the odds based on where those prices might settle from hereon in as the greater availability of the 718 and less speculation attracts more buyers to the newer car, even if they have to wait.
Or is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
Assuming you decide you definitely want to change to a GT4 the way I see it is....if you want to drive one now buy the 981 but if you're not bothered about driving one for a year or so, try and get a 718 and if you don't get one, buy the 981 which will have gone down a bit (bound to because it'll be a year older than now).Or is now a good time to try and negotiate hard on a 981 because of the release of the 718?
Quandary so any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
There have been a number of folk posting on here that say they want a 981GT4 but always find an excuse not to buy one because their crystal ball says that the price is going to come down. Eventually the price might come down enough for them to buy one but when they congratulate themselves on waiting and getting it for a bargain price (say sixty something thousand), they'll then realize that they've bought a car that could be 4 or 5 years old.
Yeah I've owned both. I bought a very high spec (PASM, PSE, PTV, Sports Chrono) manual CS from new in 2015 and ran it for a couple of years. Then had a GT4 for maybe 9 months, including some road trips and track days. Great car overall, but I didn't fall for it. On the road, it has so much composure and so much grip and confidence at the front end, I never found it was that challenging to drive or felt like it was helping to improve me as a driver. It doesn't have the depth of involvement as a road car that I was hoping for. I realise this is completely at odds with nearly every road test conclusion and when I reflect on it, I think I would rate the GT4 more highly if I hadn't owned and bonded with the CS beforehand. I should call out a few things though in the interests of balance. The steering, the quality of the damping and the gear shift on the GT4 are brilliant.
The engine in the GT4 was disappointing. Not in terms of power or torque, and in fact the extra torque is helpful at in-filling the long gearing, (which is noticeable coming out of a CS), but in the way the power was delivered. . I think I was expecting a bit more of a GT3-esque style theatre to the engine, a bit more "mini exotic", if you like. Which is probably completely unfair given the relative price points of the 981 GT4 and the 991 GT3. Tellingly, I was fortunate to drive my GT4 back-to-back with a 991.1 4GTS manual in the Highlands of Scotland over an extended period and with clear, open roads and an ability to properly rev both engines. I think the GT4 would be a markedly better car with the full-fat 991.1 GTS engine. There is a lot of talk about the GT4 engine being strangled and I'm afraid it's 100% true. The lardy 4GTS felt like the more spirited car, in a straight line at least, which shouldn't be the case!
I miss the CS more than I do the GT4, which sums up my view, I guess. I can't really criticise anyone for picking a GT4, because in absolute terms it is a fine sports car. But when I think that I could probably buy an Exige V6 for the same cost to change from CS to GT4, it starts to make less sense. If I had my time again I definitely would have kept the CS. Which is testament to the quality of that 981 chassis.
The engine in the GT4 was disappointing. Not in terms of power or torque, and in fact the extra torque is helpful at in-filling the long gearing, (which is noticeable coming out of a CS), but in the way the power was delivered. . I think I was expecting a bit more of a GT3-esque style theatre to the engine, a bit more "mini exotic", if you like. Which is probably completely unfair given the relative price points of the 981 GT4 and the 991 GT3. Tellingly, I was fortunate to drive my GT4 back-to-back with a 991.1 4GTS manual in the Highlands of Scotland over an extended period and with clear, open roads and an ability to properly rev both engines. I think the GT4 would be a markedly better car with the full-fat 991.1 GTS engine. There is a lot of talk about the GT4 engine being strangled and I'm afraid it's 100% true. The lardy 4GTS felt like the more spirited car, in a straight line at least, which shouldn't be the case!
I miss the CS more than I do the GT4, which sums up my view, I guess. I can't really criticise anyone for picking a GT4, because in absolute terms it is a fine sports car. But when I think that I could probably buy an Exige V6 for the same cost to change from CS to GT4, it starts to make less sense. If I had my time again I definitely would have kept the CS. Which is testament to the quality of that 981 chassis.
JustCallMeMac said:
Heathrow said:
Not quite what you want to hear but I would keep hold of your S. Once you get over the initial buzz from owning the GT4 I think you might miss the S. The engine spins more freely and it sounds better. The steering in the GT4 is sharper, the brakes are awesome and the suspension can take anything you demand of it (and more). I just think the S is more than the sum of its parts. It's the better road car IMHO. If you're looking to do track days then ignore all of the above and get the GT4!
On the contrary and you make a very, very valid point, which is certainly appreciated. Are you basing your comment on your own direct experience? After I take my CS out I often ask myself what more would I actually want for driving on UK roads. It goes and handles well enough, I love the immediacy of that NA engine and the balance of the thing, it sounds fantastic and is comfortable, practical and easy to live with. (No concerns about speed bumps etc here) It's also extremely well-optioned and I've recently put my own stamp on it in a number of areas both cosmetically and in terms of driver improvements. (E.g. GT4 short-shift)
So I admit that I'm actually struggling with the idea of spending an additional £40k approx to upgrade to a well-optioned 981 GT4 or circa £55k to get in to a 718, built to more-or less the same spec. The 'man maths' isn't really the issue here though. It's the real-world, 'day-to-day experience once that 'buzz' you mention wears off and a few realities are faced that romantic reviews of the GT4 blasting across country on scenic empty roads do not portray.
So whilst the 981 S is clearly a good few rungs below a GT4 in lots of ways, as an everyday proposition in this country, does it and its GTS bigger brother actually make more sense?
Or will scratching that GT itch win in the end?
It's even more of a dilemma than I first thought!
I was looking at GT4's and Spyder's on and off since they were announced, unsure if the extra was worth it over the 'S', but still felt there was an itch that needed scratching...
The GT4 wasn't right for me as I really like a convertible for an occasional car, and I wouldn't be putting it on a track. So I started looking at Spyder's as I really missed a manual in a 'fun' car, but think that I would l find a manual change a nuisance everyday in city traffic now. After a few months of dithering I saw a fantastic looking 981 Spyder and just decided to buy it. Haven't looked back since. The 'S' was/is a fantastic machine, but for me it was still a compromise car - all of the things that made it great every day made it less of an event for an occasional car - possibly where you are now? I find the Spyder much more of an event whilst still being a great road car, highlights for me being the engine, manual gearbox, buckets, more direct steering, overall shape and, in my case, the colour. A CS or GTS is a wonderful everyday car, and possibly a better choice compared to a GT4, don't know. All I can say is that for me the Spyder was well worth the extra cash over a BS, to my surprise and delight I have to say.
scoobyc said:
Bispal said:
Personally I think the 981 Spyder is the sweet spot, rarer and better suited to UK roads and only 7 for sale on PH and 0 on AutoTrader.
Must be something wrong with your AT search, I found 7 this morning...Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff