1900s pre war motors
Discussion
I'm wondering if anyone knows why period photos from the early 1920s, 1930s and beyond show non or very few cars from the decades prior, for example early steam cars and petrol engined cars like the Ford Model T and other numerous car makes that were around (albeit few in number for those who could afford one)?. In photos from the 20s, 30s and 40s you see mainly cars that were manufactured in those periods, but none manufactured before the 1920s.
Was the lack of cars from the previous decades due to the war?.
Was the lack of cars from the previous decades due to the war?.
I think it's the same with every decade, the overwhelming majority of cars you'd photograph on the street or in a car park today will have been manufactured since 2010.
Have a look at the street scene photos here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Have a look at the street scene photos here: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I suspect also that at the time, there wasn’t such a classic/vintage car movement that there is today. I remember watching a Pathe film from the 1950s/60s showing a scrapyard piled up with vintage cars from the 20s/30s, I guess nostalgia hadn’t set in and also old cars were exactly that, old cars. The idea of an old car going up in value wouldn’t come in for decades, so there was little financial incentive to keep something going unless it had sentimental value.
Nowadays we have circa twelves decades of motor cars to choose from, multiple different eras each with their own styles and technology. Some folk prefer pre war, some prefer 60s American muscle, some like 90s JDM, others only have an interest in stuff sub-three years old. There’s stuff to cater for just about everybody today, whereas half a Century ago those who would have preferred a Japanese drift machine from 1992 would be a bit stuffed.
Nowadays we have circa twelves decades of motor cars to choose from, multiple different eras each with their own styles and technology. Some folk prefer pre war, some prefer 60s American muscle, some like 90s JDM, others only have an interest in stuff sub-three years old. There’s stuff to cater for just about everybody today, whereas half a Century ago those who would have preferred a Japanese drift machine from 1992 would be a bit stuffed.
I don't think the 1920s and 30s were much different than the 40s and 50s in terms of the average working class person being unable to afford a car. Even in the 40s and 50s the only people that could afford to own a car were the likes of doctors and people in well paid and professional jobs, and it was only until the 1950s that car ownership was obtainable for the masses.
All sorts of points can be made here!
The number of cars made pre-Great War that would have been useable in the 1920s wasn't large, apart from Model T Fords.
Those that were included those with large engines which were subject to high Road Tax - that was still a problem in the late 1930s when cars such as Rolls-Royce and Bentley went for scrap when "only" 10-15 years old.
Post Second War when new cars were hard to come by we continued to use cars of the 1920s/30s because they were available, cheap to buy and with the help of the scrapyards cheap to maintain. That did increase the proportion of old cars in 1940s/50s photos but as many 1940s cars were continuations of pre-war models it isn't always obvious.
The point about 1940s/50s car ownership still being the province of the better-off is valid, but only for new cars really. We engineering apprentices (and our university contemporaries) drove the older stuff as I've said above, but the fitter I worked with, and his mates, came to work by bicycle or motorcycle.
ETA Henry Ford's great breakthrough with the Model T was that it was cheap enough that the people who made it could afford to buy and own it - mass production is only worth its keep if there is also mass consumption!
The number of cars made pre-Great War that would have been useable in the 1920s wasn't large, apart from Model T Fords.
Those that were included those with large engines which were subject to high Road Tax - that was still a problem in the late 1930s when cars such as Rolls-Royce and Bentley went for scrap when "only" 10-15 years old.
Post Second War when new cars were hard to come by we continued to use cars of the 1920s/30s because they were available, cheap to buy and with the help of the scrapyards cheap to maintain. That did increase the proportion of old cars in 1940s/50s photos but as many 1940s cars were continuations of pre-war models it isn't always obvious.
The point about 1940s/50s car ownership still being the province of the better-off is valid, but only for new cars really. We engineering apprentices (and our university contemporaries) drove the older stuff as I've said above, but the fitter I worked with, and his mates, came to work by bicycle or motorcycle.
ETA Henry Ford's great breakthrough with the Model T was that it was cheap enough that the people who made it could afford to buy and own it - mass production is only worth its keep if there is also mass consumption!
Edited by Allan L on Monday 15th July 16:01
Edited by Allan L on Monday 15th July 16:02
Allan L said:
All sorts of points can be made here!
The number of cars made pre-Great War that would have been useable in the 1920s wasn't large, apart from Model T Fords.
The other relevant point, is the fact that until the Model T, all car prior to that were not mass produced, they were all handmade cars, even by the late 1920's, as such they were already difficult to maintain and not really user friendly, even the Model T didn't have traditional controls.The number of cars made pre-Great War that would have been useable in the 1920s wasn't large, apart from Model T Fords.
That's way until the Ford A and the Austin 7 of the very late 1920's which had controls as we know them today, and were mass produced, as Jame May would say these were really the first generation of cars for the people.
This is why you won't see many pre-1930's cars in photos, except in 1910-1930 era photos of big cities in the USA perhaps.
Riley Blue said:
I think it's the same with every decade, the overwhelming majority of cars you'd photograph on the street or in a car park today will have been manufactured since 2010.
True. My 1993 Saab is routinely the only 20th century car in the car park, especially if it's an office or other professional environment.Riley Blue said:
sideways man said:
The classic car scene didn’t really start until the early 1980’s. Before that, old cars were exactly that; old. And therefore undesirable.
I think it started long before that, one-make cars clubs have been around since the 1920s.Doofus said:
Car clubs have been around for as long as cars, but not classic car clubs.
The use of the term "Classic Car" is of recent coinage in this context. The two Clubs that one could say were the forerunners in that field are the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain, founded in 1930 and the Vintage Sports-Car Club, founded in 1934.The one-make clubs all started as clubs for owners of current vehicles, but after some time had passed they found themselves supporting owners of out of date cars as well as new - until production stopped for whatever reason, when they became Old Car Clubs.
Edited by Allan L on Friday 19th July 18:22
sideways man said:
The classic car scene didn’t really start until the early 1980’s. Before that, old cars were exactly that; old. And therefore undesirable.
Started well before that..!!I can remember going to my first indoor Classic Car Show at the Brighton Metropole in 1981, and it had been well established by then.
Clubs like the Stag Club, Ford 1600E Club, Ford AVO Owners Club, Mini Cooper Register etc were all started in 79/80 or earlier.
I can remember buying Throughbred and Classic Cars mag I think it was then around 1979/80?
I would say the 'modern' classic car scene was well established by 1980.
A part of it must be the major advances in not just the ease of use, see the early cars with things like manual spark advance, the non-stranded controls an weird set ups, the crank to start.
But the lights (new electric vs acetylene lamp), suspension, engine, fuel, weather protection and so on.
A car ten years old could have no roof,lights or suspension worth the name.
Second is that pre MOT cars could get quite worn down.
But the lights (new electric vs acetylene lamp), suspension, engine, fuel, weather protection and so on.
A car ten years old could have no roof,lights or suspension worth the name.
Second is that pre MOT cars could get quite worn down.
Motor Sport used to a couple of pages in every issue about the VSCC meetings in the 50s and 60s, By Bill Boddy as I remember.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_Sports-Car...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vintage_Sports-Car...
Funkmachine7 said:
A part of it must be the major advances in not just the ease of use, see the early cars with things like manual spark advance, the non-stranded controls an weird set ups, the crank to start.
But the lights (new electric vs acetylene lamp), suspension, engine, fuel, weather protection and so on.
A car ten years old could have no roof,lights or suspension worth the name.
Second is that pre MOT cars could get quite worn down.
The MoT was introduced to get the "well worn" (I.e dangerous) off the roads!But the lights (new electric vs acetylene lamp), suspension, engine, fuel, weather protection and so on.
A car ten years old could have no roof,lights or suspension worth the name.
Second is that pre MOT cars could get quite worn down.
Still annoys me in dramas set in the '30s where baby Austins and the like all have twin rear brake/tail lights whereas in reality one or possibly two bulbs in a fitting on the number plate sufficed for braking, tail light and plate illumination. Assuming the relevant filament was intact.
Dogwatch said:
The MoT was introduced to get the "well worn" (I.e dangerous) off the roads!
Still annoys me in dramas set in the '30s where baby Austins and the like all have twin rear brake/tail lights whereas in reality one or possibly two bulbs in a fitting on the number plate sufficed for braking, tail light and plate illumination. Assuming the relevant filament was intact.
The MoT was introduced for cars that were ten or more years old and quite right too!Still annoys me in dramas set in the '30s where baby Austins and the like all have twin rear brake/tail lights whereas in reality one or possibly two bulbs in a fitting on the number plate sufficed for braking, tail light and plate illumination. Assuming the relevant filament was intact.
On your second point, unless one keeps the cars exclusively for film/TV use and never use them on the public highway, some of the modern construction and use rules apply. Similarly, out-of-period registration numbers jar with me.
Many of us have also added flashing indicators (not obligatory) to give us a chance on modern roads - in my car's case those indicators are easy to remove if I need the car to look original.
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