Puddles on track limits
Discussion
With all the drama on track limits, why not just have a strip of water at the limit?
1 inch at its deepest, 12 inches wide. (Or whatever is considered or god forbid tested to be eough to punish a little bit, while allowing the driver to recover)
driver slides wide, gets tyres cooled a little bit, or has to go off but recovers on tarmac runoff. Solves the grass/gravel/tarmac fight/compromise between differing motorsports as you can simply drain/fill to suit
Tell me why this isn't the greatest idea since elimination qualifying.
1 inch at its deepest, 12 inches wide. (Or whatever is considered or god forbid tested to be eough to punish a little bit, while allowing the driver to recover)
driver slides wide, gets tyres cooled a little bit, or has to go off but recovers on tarmac runoff. Solves the grass/gravel/tarmac fight/compromise between differing motorsports as you can simply drain/fill to suit
Tell me why this isn't the greatest idea since elimination qualifying.
Teddy Lop said:
With all the drama on track limits, why not just have a strip of water at the limit?
1 inch at its deepest, 12 inches wide. (Or whatever is considered or god forbid tested to be eough to punish a little bit, while allowing the driver to recover)
driver slides wide, gets tyres cooled a little bit, or has to go off but recovers on tarmac runoff. Solves the grass/gravel/tarmac fight/compromise between differing motorsports as you can simply drain/fill to suit
Tell me why this isn't the greatest idea since elimination qualifying.
The logistic of keeping each one topped up would be quite complex, especially those on corners through a change in elevation. Then each would have to be re-filled each time a tyre went through, as the water would be almost entirely displaced. Lastly, it could be described as a little unfair for the next guy to come through, balls to the wall on a warm and sunny day only to discover the corner has just been sprayed with water because the last guy cut a corner.1 inch at its deepest, 12 inches wide. (Or whatever is considered or god forbid tested to be eough to punish a little bit, while allowing the driver to recover)
driver slides wide, gets tyres cooled a little bit, or has to go off but recovers on tarmac runoff. Solves the grass/gravel/tarmac fight/compromise between differing motorsports as you can simply drain/fill to suit
Tell me why this isn't the greatest idea since elimination qualifying.
How about spikes? Or just... nothing at all - a sheer drop of a couple of feet.
TheDeuce said:
The logistic of keeping each one topped up would be quite complex, especially those on corners through a change in elevation. Then each would have to be re-filled each time a tyre went through, as the water would be almost entirely displaced. Lastly, it could be described as a little unfair for the next guy to come through, balls to the wall on a warm and sunny day only to discover the corner has just been sprayed with water because the last guy cut a corner.
How about spikes? Or just... nothing at all - a sheer drop of a couple of feet.
its generally no more than one or two corners per circuit that cause an issue, few that have elevation issues. Topping up could be as simple as an underground pipe controlled by nearest marshals where they can pump or suck water to adjust and repelish on the fly. Before you ask the puddle would be designed with overflow accounted for so an errant Marshall can't flood the track;)How about spikes? Or just... nothing at all - a sheer drop of a couple of feet.
Would dragging water on circuit be an issue? I'm not envisaging that much water, what there is may be boiled off quickly by the hot tyres, and most drivers would find themselves have to turn in to correct so going off and back on rather then dragging moisture back on to the corners racing line - but you're right this would have to be carefully considered.
It would be stated as too dangerous. Car loses it and it could cause a major crash.
I remember when they use to have astroturf and that was then banned after cars ripped it up. Higher curbs would also be considered dangerous.
Gravel traps at the slower corners would be a great addition.
Or just plant grass like the old days
Perhaps something like the DRS being disabled or a joker style lap where the driver has to negotiate a slower section during the lap in a designated area.
I remember when they use to have astroturf and that was then banned after cars ripped it up. Higher curbs would also be considered dangerous.
Gravel traps at the slower corners would be a great addition.
Or just plant grass like the old days
Perhaps something like the DRS being disabled or a joker style lap where the driver has to negotiate a slower section during the lap in a designated area.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 27th July 17:55
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It would be stated as too dangerous. Car loses it and it could cause a major crash.
I remember when they use to have astroturf and that was then banned after cars ripped it up. Higher curbs would also be considered dangerous.
Gravel traps at the slower corners would be a great addition.
Or just plant grass like the old days
Perhaps something like the DRS being disabled or a joker style lap where the driver has to negotiate a slower section during the lap in a designated area.
I think just grass. Good old fashioned grass - gets the job done and doesn't cause a lot of issues, other than for the chumps that take the piss and clip it.I remember when they use to have astroturf and that was then banned after cars ripped it up. Higher curbs would also be considered dangerous.
Gravel traps at the slower corners would be a great addition.
Or just plant grass like the old days
Perhaps something like the DRS being disabled or a joker style lap where the driver has to negotiate a slower section during the lap in a designated area.
Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Saturday 27th July 17:55
Teddy Lop said:
its generally no more than one or two corners per circuit that cause an issue, few that have elevation issues. Topping up could be as simple as an underground pipe controlled by nearest marshals where they can pump or suck water to adjust and repelish on the fly. Before you ask the puddle would be designed with overflow accounted for so an errant Marshall can't flood the track;)
Would dragging water on circuit be an issue? I'm not envisaging that much water, what there is may be boiled off quickly by the hot tyres, and most drivers would find themselves have to turn in to correct so going off and back on rather then dragging moisture back on to the corners racing line - but you're right this would have to be carefully considered.
You might struggle to believe this, but I have made something of a career from pools of water, especially level controlled and auto top-up pools. Getting the 'puddle' refilled each time would take time, more than enough time than the gap between cars so it wouldn't always be ready. The overflow drainage would also be tricky, the water would need to drain to a local sump and be pumped clear in many situations to avoid it finding it's way back to track.Would dragging water on circuit be an issue? I'm not envisaging that much water, what there is may be boiled off quickly by the hot tyres, and most drivers would find themselves have to turn in to correct so going off and back on rather then dragging moisture back on to the corners racing line - but you're right this would have to be carefully considered.
I did a Rolls Royce 'driving through a puddle' sequence once, had to refill 'reset' the puddle on demand between each take. Despite being a far larger puddle than you suggest the sheer speed that a tyre evacuates the water ahead of it's path was sufficient to also carry away the water that was nowhere near the path of the tyre.
I don't like to put down ideas though - the fact I see problems doesn't mean the problems aren't solvable, I could definitely make such a system work complete with redundant filling and drainage provision. But as you allude..the biggest problem would be safety as the water could end up on the track in unexpected quantities. If that causes a spin, the chap who signed off the scheme is going to feel a bit of a pillock.
I'm thinking this new zero tolerance policy for leaving the track will prove pretty effective, and it's effectively free - albeit annoying for many a driver today..
All it needs is sensors and penalties just how it's done in basic club racing in the UK on MSV circuits. F1 could easily afford that. Problem is they keep harping on about this "gaining an advantage" rubbish. A racing driver doesn't drive off the track at the same point for any other reason than gaining an advantage. Do it once no problem, twice get a warning flag, three times 5 second penalty, four times 15 seconds, five times black flag and you're out.
TheDeuce said:
Teddy Lop said:
its generally no more than one or two corners per circuit that cause an issue, few that have elevation issues. Topping up could be as simple as an underground pipe controlled by nearest marshals where they can pump or suck water to adjust and repelish on the fly. Before you ask the puddle would be designed with overflow accounted for so an errant Marshall can't flood the track;)
Would dragging water on circuit be an issue? I'm not envisaging that much water, what there is may be boiled off quickly by the hot tyres, and most drivers would find themselves have to turn in to correct so going off and back on rather then dragging moisture back on to the corners racing line - but you're right this would have to be carefully considered.
You might struggle to believe this, but I have made something of a career from pools of water, especially level controlled and auto top-up pools. Getting the 'puddle' refilled each time would take time, more than enough time than the gap between cars so it wouldn't always be ready. The overflow drainage would also be tricky, the water would need to drain to a local sump and be pumped clear in many situations to avoid it finding it's way back to track.Would dragging water on circuit be an issue? I'm not envisaging that much water, what there is may be boiled off quickly by the hot tyres, and most drivers would find themselves have to turn in to correct so going off and back on rather then dragging moisture back on to the corners racing line - but you're right this would have to be carefully considered.
I did a Rolls Royce 'driving through a puddle' sequence once, had to refill 'reset' the puddle on demand between each take. Despite being a far larger puddle than you suggest the sheer speed that a tyre evacuates the water ahead of it's path was sufficient to also carry away the water that was nowhere near the path of the tyre.
I don't like to put down ideas though - the fact I see problems doesn't mean the problems aren't solvable, I could definitely make such a system work complete with redundant filling and drainage provision. But as you allude..the biggest problem would be safety as the water could end up on the track in unexpected quantities. If that causes a spin, the chap who signed off the scheme is going to feel a bit of a pillock.
I'm thinking this new zero tolerance policy for leaving the track will prove pretty effective, and it's effectively free - albeit annoying for many a driver today..
We all know who's going where, just make it clear where the limit is and penalise consistently.
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