Setting up 4.5 throttles (adaptives etc)
Discussion
I’m a bit late to the Cerbera party (a year into ownership), it seems most of you went through all the learning years ago!
I have read (and re-read) every thread I can find on setting up the throttles etc. and have pulled together the following procedure (there are very helpful procedures in prior threads, but i’m trying for something I can follow in the heat of the moment (no engine seems to generate as much heat (and therefore sweat) as a Cerbera engine!).
ALSO, there appear to be two schools of thought, one is to use a air mass meter is the other is to use the adaptives as an indicator of air flow. I have opted for the latter and the procedure does not involve a synchrometer.
- [1] Cold engine
- [2] Remove link bar
- [3] With both throttles shut, set TPOTs to 14.8-15.2 - getting them identical is critical
- [4] Refit bar but ensure TPOT values don’t change for either bank
- [5] Refit clips but leave lock nuts loose
- [6] Reset adaptives
- [7] Start engine
- [8] Get up to temperature - TPOTs and link bar will both change with temperature, so everything will move a bit
- [9] Bring idle up to around 1200-1500rpm (this will be set to 950rpm, at then end)
- [10] Once up to temperature, make sure TPOTs are identical - adjust them if they’re not
- [11] The bank with the higher adaptive (more positive value) is sucking more air
- [12] If it’s the odd bank, then lengthen the link bar (which closes the odd throttle) until adaptive is 0% and then raise the odd bank TPOT to match the even bank TPOT (this will in-turn make the adaptive more negative)
- [13] If it’s the even bank, then record the odd bank TPOT value and reduce the idle until the even bank adaptive is at 0% - set the even bank TPOT to be the same as the odd bank. Then lengthen the link bar until the odd bank TPOT value is back to its original value (same as newly set even bank TPOT)
- [14] Keep repeating this, bank to bank until both adaptives are identical, gradually getting closer to 0%
- [15] Adjust both throttle pots to get a higher percentage to reduce adaptives to just below zero - both TPOTs and adaptives should be identical across banks with adaptives close to -10%
- [16] Set idle to 950-1000rpm
- [17] Throttles should be around 18.4% and adaptives between -10% and 0%
Hoping all you experienced DIYers can point out any issues with these steps please.
Thanks in advance
I have read (and re-read) every thread I can find on setting up the throttles etc. and have pulled together the following procedure (there are very helpful procedures in prior threads, but i’m trying for something I can follow in the heat of the moment (no engine seems to generate as much heat (and therefore sweat) as a Cerbera engine!).
ALSO, there appear to be two schools of thought, one is to use a air mass meter is the other is to use the adaptives as an indicator of air flow. I have opted for the latter and the procedure does not involve a synchrometer.
- [1] Cold engine
- [2] Remove link bar
- [3] With both throttles shut, set TPOTs to 14.8-15.2 - getting them identical is critical
- [4] Refit bar but ensure TPOT values don’t change for either bank
- [5] Refit clips but leave lock nuts loose
- [6] Reset adaptives
- [7] Start engine
- [8] Get up to temperature - TPOTs and link bar will both change with temperature, so everything will move a bit
- [9] Bring idle up to around 1200-1500rpm (this will be set to 950rpm, at then end)
- [10] Once up to temperature, make sure TPOTs are identical - adjust them if they’re not
- [11] The bank with the higher adaptive (more positive value) is sucking more air
- [12] If it’s the odd bank, then lengthen the link bar (which closes the odd throttle) until adaptive is 0% and then raise the odd bank TPOT to match the even bank TPOT (this will in-turn make the adaptive more negative)
- [13] If it’s the even bank, then record the odd bank TPOT value and reduce the idle until the even bank adaptive is at 0% - set the even bank TPOT to be the same as the odd bank. Then lengthen the link bar until the odd bank TPOT value is back to its original value (same as newly set even bank TPOT)
- [14] Keep repeating this, bank to bank until both adaptives are identical, gradually getting closer to 0%
- [15] Adjust both throttle pots to get a higher percentage to reduce adaptives to just below zero - both TPOTs and adaptives should be identical across banks with adaptives close to -10%
- [16] Set idle to 950-1000rpm
- [17] Throttles should be around 18.4% and adaptives between -10% and 0%
Hoping all you experienced DIYers can point out any issues with these steps please.
Thanks in advance
Edited by Imran999 on Sunday 28th July 19:26
Hi, it seems you have the general gyst of it.
It is a continual adjust, adjust and adjust again. I found it annoying when things changed due to the heat and then the noise and fumes became annoying to everybody else (ie neighbours etc)!
Just bite the bullet and let a pro sort it - saves a lot of potential ball ache as they will also suss out if any components are duff.
It is a continual adjust, adjust and adjust again. I found it annoying when things changed due to the heat and then the noise and fumes became annoying to everybody else (ie neighbours etc)!
Just bite the bullet and let a pro sort it - saves a lot of potential ball ache as they will also suss out if any components are duff.
Thanks wolvesboy, I agree, it’s a pig of job due to the excessive heat, fumes and having to hunch over a very low engine for long periods of time, making fiddly and annoying adjustments!
Problem is, the nearest specialist is 3000 miles across the pond, as I’m in Canada!
It doesn’t help, that’s it’s >30degC here almost everyday of the summer :-(
Problem is, the nearest specialist is 3000 miles across the pond, as I’m in Canada!
It doesn’t help, that’s it’s >30degC here almost everyday of the summer :-(
Imran999 said:
Thanks wolvesboy, I agree, it’s a pig of job due to the excessive heat, fumes and having to hunch over a very low engine for long periods of time, making fiddly and annoying adjustments!
Problem is, the nearest specialist is 3000 miles across the pond, as I’m in Canada!
It doesn’t help, that’s it’s >30degC here almost everyday of the summer :-(
How difficult was it to get your Cerb over and registered there?Problem is, the nearest specialist is 3000 miles across the pond, as I’m in Canada!
It doesn’t help, that’s it’s >30degC here almost everyday of the summer :-(
Not difficult at all actually.
As long as the vehicle is at least 15 years old, you can bring anything into Ontario.
Shipping was a drama (courtesy of Autoshippers UK), and customs was a bit of a scam as the ship docked in Montreal, but bar some scratches (shipping containers aren’t very wide and people invariably rub up against the car), it made it in one piece.
The MOT equivalent is a complete joke - they literally measured brake pad and disc thicknesses and drove it around the block - that was it. And I never have to get it done again.
There is no longer an emission test requirement, so I removed my CATs.
Insurance was interesting, very few company's were willing to cover me, but in the end it wasn’t too hard (or expensive).
Cost the equivalent of £125 to get a registration plate with “CER8ERA” on it.
Everywhere it goes, people stop and look and it sparks very interesting conversations.
The downsides are of course, the lack of local knowledge and support, so any sort of elusive/out of the ordinary issue is a nightmare.
As long as the vehicle is at least 15 years old, you can bring anything into Ontario.
Shipping was a drama (courtesy of Autoshippers UK), and customs was a bit of a scam as the ship docked in Montreal, but bar some scratches (shipping containers aren’t very wide and people invariably rub up against the car), it made it in one piece.
The MOT equivalent is a complete joke - they literally measured brake pad and disc thicknesses and drove it around the block - that was it. And I never have to get it done again.
There is no longer an emission test requirement, so I removed my CATs.
Insurance was interesting, very few company's were willing to cover me, but in the end it wasn’t too hard (or expensive).
Cost the equivalent of £125 to get a registration plate with “CER8ERA” on it.
Everywhere it goes, people stop and look and it sparks very interesting conversations.
The downsides are of course, the lack of local knowledge and support, so any sort of elusive/out of the ordinary issue is a nightmare.
Ooooppps. Sorry, I didn’t realise.
I also stated that due to being in the same predicament here in Perth, Western Australia. Hey, I’m only 14,000 miles away from a good, reliable TVR mechanic!
Ensure EVERYTHING is working ok - no air leaks, no spark arching, lambdas switching, manifolds air tight etc etc. Otherwise you will be chasing unicorns!
Twinkam posted a brilliant summary - I found his explanation awesome. Good luck.
I also stated that due to being in the same predicament here in Perth, Western Australia. Hey, I’m only 14,000 miles away from a good, reliable TVR mechanic!
Ensure EVERYTHING is working ok - no air leaks, no spark arching, lambdas switching, manifolds air tight etc etc. Otherwise you will be chasing unicorns!
Twinkam posted a brilliant summary - I found his explanation awesome. Good luck.
14,000 miles? Wow, you have me beat!
Fun, having such a rare car in these far away places though, isn’t it?
And yes, all new coils, leads, plugs, filters etc
I actually managed to set it up very well.
The dam throttle link bar isn’t worth a penny, need to replace that as soon as i can, with a properly engineered solution.
Otherwise, went pretty well. I even hit upon a trick that I haven’t read on these pages before.
When adjusting the even bank for airflow, it helps to unplug the even TPS, such that both banks are getting identical fuelling (as dictated by the odd TPS). Then set the airflow (idle stop), adjust the (crappy) link bar and then finally set the even TPS. Effectively saves another iteration around the loop, as you’re setting the airflow with the right fuelling.
Fun, having such a rare car in these far away places though, isn’t it?
And yes, all new coils, leads, plugs, filters etc
I actually managed to set it up very well.
The dam throttle link bar isn’t worth a penny, need to replace that as soon as i can, with a properly engineered solution.
Otherwise, went pretty well. I even hit upon a trick that I haven’t read on these pages before.
When adjusting the even bank for airflow, it helps to unplug the even TPS, such that both banks are getting identical fuelling (as dictated by the odd TPS). Then set the airflow (idle stop), adjust the (crappy) link bar and then finally set the even TPS. Effectively saves another iteration around the loop, as you’re setting the airflow with the right fuelling.
Imran999 said:
Not difficult at all actually.
As long as the vehicle is at least 15 years old, you can bring anything into Ontario.
Shipping was a drama (courtesy of Autoshippers UK), and customs was a bit of a scam as the ship docked in Montreal, but bar some scratches (shipping containers aren’t very wide and people invariably rub up against the car), it made it in one piece.
What happened with shipping? What were the costs? Was it your own vehicle beforehand?As long as the vehicle is at least 15 years old, you can bring anything into Ontario.
Shipping was a drama (courtesy of Autoshippers UK), and customs was a bit of a scam as the ship docked in Montreal, but bar some scratches (shipping containers aren’t very wide and people invariably rub up against the car), it made it in one piece.
Shipping was the usual story, I should have known really.
Autoshippers connected me with their Canadian agent, who was amazing, and explained the rest of the process, so I signed up with them.
Upon arrival of the boat in Canada, they had signed with a different Canadian agent (not as helpful) and there were hidden fees to be paid before release - you hear this with every single shopping story gone wrong, but somehow I fell foul to it too.
Autoshippers were very courteous and seemed very professional but did not resolve these issues for me - instead, I paid the Canadian agent that they had originally said they would use, to resolve all this for me. She was amazing.
Yes I owned the vehicle, but the V5 was not in my name - that didn’t seem to matter at all.
I want to get a rose jointed link bar made up, of anyone can post any pics that would be great!
Autoshippers connected me with their Canadian agent, who was amazing, and explained the rest of the process, so I signed up with them.
Upon arrival of the boat in Canada, they had signed with a different Canadian agent (not as helpful) and there were hidden fees to be paid before release - you hear this with every single shopping story gone wrong, but somehow I fell foul to it too.
Autoshippers were very courteous and seemed very professional but did not resolve these issues for me - instead, I paid the Canadian agent that they had originally said they would use, to resolve all this for me. She was amazing.
Yes I owned the vehicle, but the V5 was not in my name - that didn’t seem to matter at all.
I want to get a rose jointed link bar made up, of anyone can post any pics that would be great!
A synchrometer is a handy tool (and there are also plenty of mobile/laptop options to look at ecu diagnostic information while balancing the throttles)
I have this synchrometer:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ste-BK-Synchrometer-ITCBK...
I use an app to fine tune everything.
I have this synchrometer:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ste-BK-Synchrometer-ITCBK...
I use an app to fine tune everything.
aide said:
A synchrometer is a handy tool (and there are also plenty of mobile/laptop options to look at ecu diagnostic information while balancing the throttles)
I have this synchrometer:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ste-BK-Synchrometer-ITCBK...
I use an app to fine tune everything.
Yes, I bought the same one - but I used it only as a confirmation of what the adaptives were telling me - identical adaptives (provided the throttle pots are reading the same (or with the even bank pot unplugged ;-) ) means equal airflow. And the adaptives are an exact digital readout to one decimal place (vs the very analog and graduated scale on the syncrometer). Also (and perhaps I’m doing it wrong), I measure each individual trumpet with the syncrometer and then add up the 4 values for the total air-draw for the bank. I often feel that during the time I rush around and take 4+4 readings, the engine speed varies and so my comparison might be out.I have this synchrometer:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ste-BK-Synchrometer-ITCBK...
I use an app to fine tune everything.
I use the MBE tool software on my huge clunky Win XP laptop - not fun!
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