Senior engineer employed, but knows jack all. What to do?
Discussion
Hello folks
Here is a shortened background on this situation -
Exactly 1 year ago I was prompted to be a network engineer, this is something I have wanted to do since I started in IT 6 years ago. Throughout this year I have done lots of training through work, on the job training and so much self-studying, I still have a long way to go in terms of knowledge but I now understand a lot of what I am doing.
Two months ago my place of work employed a senior network engineer through another project, who then has been posted into our 3rd line network team. This guy is much older than I, has a personality deficiency, but more importantly doesn't know jack all about networking. This guy keeps asking me incredibly basic questions, which is starting to really wind me up! An example - on his first day I was showing him around our many comms rooms and he asked me "what is a patch panel and why do we use them?". If I was sat down, then I would have fallen off of my chair.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has had this situation before? If so, how did you handle it? I'm now at the point where my replies are borderline rude, as I'm fed up of a senior asking a "junior" questions which I expect someone of his level to already know.
Thanks folks
PB
Here is a shortened background on this situation -
Exactly 1 year ago I was prompted to be a network engineer, this is something I have wanted to do since I started in IT 6 years ago. Throughout this year I have done lots of training through work, on the job training and so much self-studying, I still have a long way to go in terms of knowledge but I now understand a lot of what I am doing.
Two months ago my place of work employed a senior network engineer through another project, who then has been posted into our 3rd line network team. This guy is much older than I, has a personality deficiency, but more importantly doesn't know jack all about networking. This guy keeps asking me incredibly basic questions, which is starting to really wind me up! An example - on his first day I was showing him around our many comms rooms and he asked me "what is a patch panel and why do we use them?". If I was sat down, then I would have fallen off of my chair.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has had this situation before? If so, how did you handle it? I'm now at the point where my replies are borderline rude, as I'm fed up of a senior asking a "junior" questions which I expect someone of his level to already know.
Thanks folks
PB
Sounds like he may have blagged the job. Talk with line manager and raise the concerns, also try to get other staff to work with him, to see if they echo your concerns.
Had a similar thing at my work last year, but it was a graduate employed. He didn't know the difference between milli and mega when discussing numbers, and was extremely clumsy damaging a lot of property in strange ways. His desk was a state in 3 weeks despite being new before (food, chemicals and burns on it), he remarked that he couldn't understand why mine was in better condition despite working a few years here. He was sent packing after 2 months.
Had a similar thing at my work last year, but it was a graduate employed. He didn't know the difference between milli and mega when discussing numbers, and was extremely clumsy damaging a lot of property in strange ways. His desk was a state in 3 weeks despite being new before (food, chemicals and burns on it), he remarked that he couldn't understand why mine was in better condition despite working a few years here. He was sent packing after 2 months.
Xaero said:
Sounds like he may have blagged the job. Talk with line manager and raise the concerns, also try to get other staff to work with him, to see if they echo your concerns.
Had a similar thing at my work last year, but it was a graduate employed. He didn't know the difference between milli and mega when discussing numbers, and was extremely clumsy damaging a lot of property in strange ways. His desk was a state in 3 weeks despite being new before (food, chemicals and burns on it), he remarked that he couldn't understand why mine was in better condition despite working a few years here. He was sent packing after 2 months.
He absolutely blagged his way in, and due to our delicate procedure of handling staff, I very much doubt he will ever get fired. Had a similar thing at my work last year, but it was a graduate employed. He didn't know the difference between milli and mega when discussing numbers, and was extremely clumsy damaging a lot of property in strange ways. His desk was a state in 3 weeks despite being new before (food, chemicals and burns on it), he remarked that he couldn't understand why mine was in better condition despite working a few years here. He was sent packing after 2 months.
So I have raised my concerns, but was super careful as my managers know I want to get into the team which this chap has been employed in, I didn't want them to think I was just throwing my toys out of the pram.
This morning there have been two other incidents. The new chap emailed my line manager demanding her team to investigate an issue, then he didn't listen to her reply and kept badgering her with completely wrong technical information. He also made changes to a firewall, which caused some problems and then denied all knowledge of it. Thankfully logs don't lie and it was clear he made the change *face palm*
I'm currently saving every skype conversation with this person, as I want to prove to management that he is a blagger and doesn't know what he is doing. Also, my other colleagues have all had similar dealings with the new guy and share my concerns.
I haven't had to deal with a situation like this before and am trying to handle it carefully, but so far nothing has happened with his incompetence
PB
I would expect in a technical role he would be found out fairly quickly.
Do you guys provide on-call cover?
Can you arrange for him to be given an important project to do on his own (maybe a branch office? Something secret for senior management with limited permissions for anyone else to touch it?)
How about suggesting everyone should get a qualification (e.g. if enough of you have Microsoft Devops qualifications, your company gets a bunch of Visual Studio Enterprise licences)
I'm always wary of talking about someone behind their back, especially if there is a risk they may have political connections. If I can find a way to let them visibly prove themselves (or not) then that would be my preferred approach.
If you hadn't said he had a personality issue I'd have also suggested that you take him down the pub and see if you can coax an honest answer out of him - asking about his previous roles and what he did.
Also worth remembering that the more senior you are, the less hands-on you often tend to be. I did a solution architecture role a few years back where the only tools I was allowed on my machine were Word and Visio ...
Do you guys provide on-call cover?
Can you arrange for him to be given an important project to do on his own (maybe a branch office? Something secret for senior management with limited permissions for anyone else to touch it?)
How about suggesting everyone should get a qualification (e.g. if enough of you have Microsoft Devops qualifications, your company gets a bunch of Visual Studio Enterprise licences)
I'm always wary of talking about someone behind their back, especially if there is a risk they may have political connections. If I can find a way to let them visibly prove themselves (or not) then that would be my preferred approach.
If you hadn't said he had a personality issue I'd have also suggested that you take him down the pub and see if you can coax an honest answer out of him - asking about his previous roles and what he did.
Also worth remembering that the more senior you are, the less hands-on you often tend to be. I did a solution architecture role a few years back where the only tools I was allowed on my machine were Word and Visio ...
Before you attempt to tackle this, I think you need to first ask whether you are the person who is best placed to try and resolve this problem.
You may well be acting in the company’s best interests which is commendable, but calling someone out as incompetent for their job inevitably raises a lot of questions in management’s eyes about you. I would therefore sound a note of caution about nominating yourself as the one who takes him on, unless you are feeling very secure about how you are perceived, have a strong relationship with the people who would need to take action, and you are confident that the culture of the workplace you are in supports this sort of whistleblowing.
If not, then I would council some patience, let his actions speak for themselves, and trust your management to be able to identify and act accordingly. In the meantime, if his behaviour is genuinely impacting on your work, then I would focus on raising solely the specific situations where this has occurred. However, if the scale of the problem were at the level of a few questions a day (even dumb ones), I’m not sure I’d be calling on management to intervene.
I totally appreciate that noone likes it when an idiot is impacting the performance of the team. However, there’s more than one way to skin a cat, and taking it on as your personal mission to rid the team of him may not be your best move.
You may well be acting in the company’s best interests which is commendable, but calling someone out as incompetent for their job inevitably raises a lot of questions in management’s eyes about you. I would therefore sound a note of caution about nominating yourself as the one who takes him on, unless you are feeling very secure about how you are perceived, have a strong relationship with the people who would need to take action, and you are confident that the culture of the workplace you are in supports this sort of whistleblowing.
If not, then I would council some patience, let his actions speak for themselves, and trust your management to be able to identify and act accordingly. In the meantime, if his behaviour is genuinely impacting on your work, then I would focus on raising solely the specific situations where this has occurred. However, if the scale of the problem were at the level of a few questions a day (even dumb ones), I’m not sure I’d be calling on management to intervene.
I totally appreciate that noone likes it when an idiot is impacting the performance of the team. However, there’s more than one way to skin a cat, and taking it on as your personal mission to rid the team of him may not be your best move.
I've been in a very similar situation, but fortunately the guy gave his notice in 3 weeks later. His lack of knowledge astounded me though.
I have always found though, it's better to keep your head down, get on with your own work and ignore any politics going on around you. Next time he asks you for help, just say you're ever so sorry but you're busy in the middle of something else. Once he has to turn to upper management for help on simple tasks/is seen not working as he's not sure what to do he'll quickly be found out.
I have always found though, it's better to keep your head down, get on with your own work and ignore any politics going on around you. Next time he asks you for help, just say you're ever so sorry but you're busy in the middle of something else. Once he has to turn to upper management for help on simple tasks/is seen not working as he's not sure what to do he'll quickly be found out.
It's not unusual.
My first 'proper' developer role saw me working with Comp Sci grads and all I had was a couple of years of being self-taught in PHP and MySQL.
I was worried that I was out of my depth until I was acting as release manager for a project when, in response to an email I sent with the info on what server we'd be using for the release and what methods I'd set up to support code uploads, one of the graduate devs asked me "What's FTP?" She was a good programmer, but very specialised and didn't know much beyond her narrow field of expertise.
Maybe this chap has a similarly narrow field of experience? Doesn't explain how he's supposed to operate in this role tho.
My first 'proper' developer role saw me working with Comp Sci grads and all I had was a couple of years of being self-taught in PHP and MySQL.
I was worried that I was out of my depth until I was acting as release manager for a project when, in response to an email I sent with the info on what server we'd be using for the release and what methods I'd set up to support code uploads, one of the graduate devs asked me "What's FTP?" She was a good programmer, but very specialised and didn't know much beyond her narrow field of expertise.
Maybe this chap has a similarly narrow field of experience? Doesn't explain how he's supposed to operate in this role tho.
My advice – FWIW
Say nothing for now….
Get as much evidence as possible, bcc yourself (to your own personal at home email) in on all emails involving him and send his replies onto home as well – as long this doesn’t conflict with any privacy issues.
As others have said, get someone else to work with him, and see what they think.
As of today, you don’t know who he knows in the organisation (maybe you do) and in this case, he may well be fireproof.
This isn't your problem or your battle. Its the next layer up, or even the next layer up again to sort this one out. Management don’t like it known they can’t recruit suitable people.
It can take some time before senior people realise they are wasters/chancers. Reckon on at least 6 months. He may well be shipped sideways. Although, in some organisations, they get sent upwards, which is a whole other ball game.
Once upon a time…
A previous company sent a guy out to Japan for a 6 months stint after 6 weeks of doing nothing in the UK office. All of us at a lower level in the UK office, knew this new guy was swinging the lead big style and he hadn’t got a clue what he was on about. The Japanese partner company complained about him after 4 months and asked what it was he was supposed to be doing. A work colleague of mine had to go out and fire him, despite the general manager knowing the issue but couldn’t talk to the guy face to face when he was out there just 1 week previous.
The general manager stood up in the office when my colleague came back and said the waster had been fired, and it had come as a most recent surprise to him as to how bad this guy was. I don’t think the office bursting into incredulous laughter was the response he was expecting…
Say nothing for now….
Get as much evidence as possible, bcc yourself (to your own personal at home email) in on all emails involving him and send his replies onto home as well – as long this doesn’t conflict with any privacy issues.
As others have said, get someone else to work with him, and see what they think.
As of today, you don’t know who he knows in the organisation (maybe you do) and in this case, he may well be fireproof.
This isn't your problem or your battle. Its the next layer up, or even the next layer up again to sort this one out. Management don’t like it known they can’t recruit suitable people.
It can take some time before senior people realise they are wasters/chancers. Reckon on at least 6 months. He may well be shipped sideways. Although, in some organisations, they get sent upwards, which is a whole other ball game.
Once upon a time…
A previous company sent a guy out to Japan for a 6 months stint after 6 weeks of doing nothing in the UK office. All of us at a lower level in the UK office, knew this new guy was swinging the lead big style and he hadn’t got a clue what he was on about. The Japanese partner company complained about him after 4 months and asked what it was he was supposed to be doing. A work colleague of mine had to go out and fire him, despite the general manager knowing the issue but couldn’t talk to the guy face to face when he was out there just 1 week previous.
The general manager stood up in the office when my colleague came back and said the waster had been fired, and it had come as a most recent surprise to him as to how bad this guy was. I don’t think the office bursting into incredulous laughter was the response he was expecting…
Flooble said:
Also worth remembering that the more senior you are, the less hands-on you often tend to be. I did a solution architecture role a few years back where the only tools I was allowed on my machine were Word and Visio ...
I cant remember the last time I worked with an SA who needed more than that other than Power Point and a web browser!Just to throw the boot out there onto the other foot.
Do you know why he was hired? I am not an engineer but in many industries you hire people for a role to fulfill a specific function, it doesn't mean they just know more about a topic than those lower down in the chain. The CEO will not know the ins and outs of something but they are good leaders and able to handle strategy etc.
Before going all guns blazing, it's worth whilst chatting with this person to get to know them - they might be not a blagger but in fact someone who was brought in to do something slightly different and has been thrown in at the deep end. Or the role they were told they were going into is different to what they now find themselves in and are doing their best to upskill asap.
Unless the person is a complete oddball, they are could be hurting too, finding it stressful, not sleeping etc. so be wary of just wading in - empathy is a good skill to have and will serve you well as you become a more experienced part of any workforce.
Do you know why he was hired? I am not an engineer but in many industries you hire people for a role to fulfill a specific function, it doesn't mean they just know more about a topic than those lower down in the chain. The CEO will not know the ins and outs of something but they are good leaders and able to handle strategy etc.
Before going all guns blazing, it's worth whilst chatting with this person to get to know them - they might be not a blagger but in fact someone who was brought in to do something slightly different and has been thrown in at the deep end. Or the role they were told they were going into is different to what they now find themselves in and are doing their best to upskill asap.
Unless the person is a complete oddball, they are could be hurting too, finding it stressful, not sleeping etc. so be wary of just wading in - empathy is a good skill to have and will serve you well as you become a more experienced part of any workforce.
Pig benis said:
Hello folks
Here is a shortened background on this situation -
Exactly 1 year ago I was prompted to be a network engineer, this is something I have wanted to do since I started in IT 6 years ago. Throughout this year I have done lots of training through work, on the job training and so much self-studying, I still have a long way to go in terms of knowledge but I now understand a lot of what I am doing.
Two months ago my place of work employed a senior network engineer through another project, who then has been posted into our 3rd line network team. This guy is much older than I, has a personality deficiency, but more importantly doesn't know jack all about networking. This guy keeps asking me incredibly basic questions, which is starting to really wind me up! An example - on his first day I was showing him around our many comms rooms and he asked me "what is a patch panel and why do we use them?". If I was sat down, then I would have fallen off of my chair.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has had this situation before? If so, how did you handle it? I'm now at the point where my replies are borderline rude, as I'm fed up of a senior asking a "junior" questions which I expect someone of his level to already know.
Thanks folks
PB
Could he be testing your knowledge?Here is a shortened background on this situation -
Exactly 1 year ago I was prompted to be a network engineer, this is something I have wanted to do since I started in IT 6 years ago. Throughout this year I have done lots of training through work, on the job training and so much self-studying, I still have a long way to go in terms of knowledge but I now understand a lot of what I am doing.
Two months ago my place of work employed a senior network engineer through another project, who then has been posted into our 3rd line network team. This guy is much older than I, has a personality deficiency, but more importantly doesn't know jack all about networking. This guy keeps asking me incredibly basic questions, which is starting to really wind me up! An example - on his first day I was showing him around our many comms rooms and he asked me "what is a patch panel and why do we use them?". If I was sat down, then I would have fallen off of my chair.
Basically, I want to know if anyone has had this situation before? If so, how did you handle it? I'm now at the point where my replies are borderline rude, as I'm fed up of a senior asking a "junior" questions which I expect someone of his level to already know.
Thanks folks
PB
geeks said:
Flooble said:
Also worth remembering that the more senior you are, the less hands-on you often tend to be. I did a solution architecture role a few years back where the only tools I was allowed on my machine were Word and Visio ...
I cant remember the last time I worked with an SA who needed more than that other than Power Point and a web browser!Garemberg said:
I was a network engineer and am now a powerfully built Director of operations
Firewall changes without change control will be his undoing, this is also why I ask if someone can still wire a crossover cable at interviews.
What's a crossover cable got to do with making firewall changes?Firewall changes without change control will be his undoing, this is also why I ask if someone can still wire a crossover cable at interviews.
keirik said:
Garemberg said:
I was a network engineer and am now a powerfully built Director of operations
Firewall changes without change control will be his undoing, this is also why I ask if someone can still wire a crossover cable at interviews.
What's a crossover cable got to do with making firewall changes?Firewall changes without change control will be his undoing, this is also why I ask if someone can still wire a crossover cable at interviews.
bucksmanuk said:
My advice – FWIW
Say nothing for now….
Get as much evidence as possible, bcc yourself (to your own personal at home email) in on all emails involving him and send his replies onto home as well – as long this doesn’t conflict with any privacy issues.
That's often enough to get you disciplined and / or fired - most companies have a rule which says you're not allowed to forward company emails to personal accounts. Say nothing for now….
Get as much evidence as possible, bcc yourself (to your own personal at home email) in on all emails involving him and send his replies onto home as well – as long this doesn’t conflict with any privacy issues.
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