Do I need a centre speaker?
Discussion
Hello.
I've got a Denon AVR-X receiver that I use for music (from various sources) and for TV sound, playing through a pair of B&W 685 S2 speakers.
I love the setup and the sound that the speakers kick out but recently, I'm finding the vocal levels can be drowned out by the background sound, which means I often have to use a higher volume than I'd like to hear the dialogue clearly, particularly when I'm watching films and Netflix. The problem is that anything other than vocals then sound really loud when there's a lot of action.
The 685s are on Atacama stands in the centre of my room, one each side of the fireplace, the TV is in the corner of the room on a cabinet and the sofa is pretty much directly in front of the speakers, about 4m away.
I don't really want a massive centre speaker and have been looking at a single B&W M1 speaker to use as a centre. As I've got a solid wood mantle piece, I could mount one to the underside quite easily.
How much difference would a centre speaker make? Any experience of the M1 and any other recommendations of a small centre speaker that would mate nicely with my existing speakers and amp, wouldn't take up much room and can be mounted to the underside of the mantle? Anyone recently added a centre channel to their existing setup?
Cheers
I've got a Denon AVR-X receiver that I use for music (from various sources) and for TV sound, playing through a pair of B&W 685 S2 speakers.
I love the setup and the sound that the speakers kick out but recently, I'm finding the vocal levels can be drowned out by the background sound, which means I often have to use a higher volume than I'd like to hear the dialogue clearly, particularly when I'm watching films and Netflix. The problem is that anything other than vocals then sound really loud when there's a lot of action.
The 685s are on Atacama stands in the centre of my room, one each side of the fireplace, the TV is in the corner of the room on a cabinet and the sofa is pretty much directly in front of the speakers, about 4m away.
I don't really want a massive centre speaker and have been looking at a single B&W M1 speaker to use as a centre. As I've got a solid wood mantle piece, I could mount one to the underside quite easily.
How much difference would a centre speaker make? Any experience of the M1 and any other recommendations of a small centre speaker that would mate nicely with my existing speakers and amp, wouldn't take up much room and can be mounted to the underside of the mantle? Anyone recently added a centre channel to their existing setup?
Cheers
Edited by TheOversteerLever on Thursday 1st August 11:35
I can get a single M1 for £150 ish - https://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/p-101812... and it appears that the mount can be rotated to use the speaker horizontally.
I've tried using a TV through a Yamaha amp in 2.1 mode (the system doubled for playing music) and dialogue could be pretty bad. Centres make a big difference. I assume it's because audio for TV's and films is processed on the assumption that you have a minimun 3.1s peaker set up.
In the new house I've separated the two systems and on the TV system have MA Radius 90's as sides and a MA 200 centre - the 200 costs £200 but I'm sure a £150 B&W will be fine and will make a huge difference.
Get a centre.
EDIT; and run the amp in 2.1 mode for music and 3.1 for TV.
In the new house I've separated the two systems and on the TV system have MA Radius 90's as sides and a MA 200 centre - the 200 costs £200 but I'm sure a £150 B&W will be fine and will make a huge difference.
Get a centre.
EDIT; and run the amp in 2.1 mode for music and 3.1 for TV.
Edited by AC43 on Thursday 1st August 12:51
The first thing to do (since it's free) is to go in to the setup of your amp and see if it thinks you have a centre - if this is the case it will be trying to send most of the dialogue to it and hence you'll be losing most of it.
If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
Also set Netflix to 'stereo' - it defaults to 5.1 apparently and your amp might not be remixing it back to stereo properly:
https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
tonyg58 said:
The first thing to do (since it's free) is to go in to the setup of your amp and see if it thinks you have a centre - if this is the case it will be trying to send most of the dialogue to it and hence you'll be losing most of it.
If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
Was about to post just this. Check your amp settings. It's maybe feeding a centre speaker without it actually being there If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
It's worth a try but I don't think it's any guarantee that it will fix the problem.
I added a centre speaker (Q 2000Ci) to my system and it made minimal difference to the clarity of the dialogue.
However on my system (Pioneer something-or-other), the act of adding the centre speaker allows me then to adjust the volume on that channel. I added +3dB which helps a fair bit.
I would check the manual and see if you can independently adjust the mixdown of the centre channel on your receiver before spending any money.
I added a centre speaker (Q 2000Ci) to my system and it made minimal difference to the clarity of the dialogue.
However on my system (Pioneer something-or-other), the act of adding the centre speaker allows me then to adjust the volume on that channel. I added +3dB which helps a fair bit.
I would check the manual and see if you can independently adjust the mixdown of the centre channel on your receiver before spending any money.
tonyg58 said:
The first thing to do (since it's free) is to go in to the setup of your amp and see if it thinks you have a centre - if this is the case it will be trying to send most of the dialogue to it and hence you'll be losing most of it.
If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
I've tweaked all of the amp settings and it's definitely running in stereo mode on the two speakers at the moent. I've set it up with the Audyssey mic and manually and changed everything I can.If it is, either change the setup manually or re-run the auto set up and make sure the amp only sees two speakers Also check the results yourself
If you do buy a centre ideally it would be a B&W and the M1 is probably your only option. £149 is standard retail for these so you will be able to get them anywhere for that price
It's not the most efficient speaker but will match yours and can be used in most orientations due to a good pivot on the stand which works two ways.There's also a wall bracket in the box
Again, if you fit one, rerun your amp auto setup (and check it manually - they do get things wrong) and enjoy your system.
M1 it is then!
Thanks.
Funk said:
Also set Netflix to 'stereo' - it defaults to 5.1 apparently and your amp might not be remixing it back to stereo properly:
https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
Yep, I've tried changing Netflix (and Sky Q) to stereo mode too but it makes little difference. https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
budgie smuggler said:
It's worth a try but I don't think it's any guarantee that it will fix the problem.
I added a centre speaker (Q 2000Ci) to my system and it made minimal difference to the clarity of the dialogue.
However on my system (Pioneer something-or-other), the act of adding the centre speaker allows me then to adjust the volume on that channel. I added +3dB which helps a fair bit.
I would check the manual and see if you can independently adjust the mixdown of the centre channel on your receiver before spending any money.
Interesting - I'm almost certain I can adjust the volume on the centre channel with my amp but I'll double check. Cheers. I added a centre speaker (Q 2000Ci) to my system and it made minimal difference to the clarity of the dialogue.
However on my system (Pioneer something-or-other), the act of adding the centre speaker allows me then to adjust the volume on that channel. I added +3dB which helps a fair bit.
I would check the manual and see if you can independently adjust the mixdown of the centre channel on your receiver before spending any money.
Some good points made guys, thanks.
For £150, it sounds like the M1 is worth a shot. I'll report back once it's in!
Maybe it's my ears too - plenty of loud music over the years might be affecting my sensitivity to high end frequencies, who knows.
Anyway, as I'm sure you'll all appreciate, any excuse to buy a new gadget is a good excuse!
Next up, an OLED LG and a new 4k receiver. Will cost a touch more than £150 though
For £150, it sounds like the M1 is worth a shot. I'll report back once it's in!
Maybe it's my ears too - plenty of loud music over the years might be affecting my sensitivity to high end frequencies, who knows.
Anyway, as I'm sure you'll all appreciate, any excuse to buy a new gadget is a good excuse!
Next up, an OLED LG and a new 4k receiver. Will cost a touch more than £150 though
Funk said:
Also set Netflix to 'stereo' - it defaults to 5.1 apparently and your amp might not be remixing it back to stereo properly:
https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
Just as a quick aside ... can you set this on a universal basis so everything always plays in English (original)? I can only seem to make it work on a program by program basis.https://imgur.com/gallery/PHBDdtd
I've just realised that I've not done a Audyssey mic setup since I've decorated my room and changed thing around. I can't see it having a massive difference but I've just plugged the mic in and have let it do it's thing. I've also changed some of the Audyssey settings so I'll see what the effect is.
I still want a centre speaker, or at least I think I do!
I still want a centre speaker, or at least I think I do!
AC43 said:
I've tried using a TV through a Yamaha amp in 2.1 mode (the system doubled for playing music) and dialogue could be pretty bad. Centres make a big difference. I assume it's because audio for TV's and films is processed on the assumption that you have a minimun 3.1s peaker set up.
In the new house I've separated the two systems and on the TV system have MA Radius 90's as sides and a MA 200 centre - the 200 costs £200 but I'm sure a £150 B&W will be fine and will make a huge difference.
Get a centre.
EDIT; and run the amp in 2.1 mode for music and 3.1 for TV.
I've tweaked all of the amp settings and it's definitely running in stereo mode on the two speakers at the moment. I've set it up with the Audyssey mic and manually and changed everything I can.In the new house I've separated the two systems and on the TV system have MA Radius 90's as sides and a MA 200 centre - the 200 costs £200 but I'm sure a £150 B&W will be fine and will make a huge difference.
Get a centre.
EDIT; and run the amp in 2.1 mode for music and 3.1 for TV.
Edited by AC43 on Thursday 1st August 12:51
M1 it is then! Good call about 2.1 for music and 3.1 for TV
TheOversteerLever said:
garyhun said:
Just as a quick aside ... can you set this on a universal basis so everything always plays in English (original)? I can only seem to make it work on a program by program basis.
I don't think you can, never seen anything in the Netflix settings.Op I use A similar setup. If you get a centre, get a matched one from B&w not an m sat speaker or it will sound crap. The front 3 need to be matched. Even then don’t expect it to improve the dialog volume. That’s easier to fix. Either use dynamic volume to flatten the volume range on loud scenes or simply up the dB level of the centre channel.
Funk said:
TheOversteerLever said:
garyhun said:
Just as a quick aside ... can you set this on a universal basis so everything always plays in English (original)? I can only seem to make it work on a program by program basis.
I don't think you can, never seen anything in the Netflix settings.Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff