N/S front Passenger Window Not Working
Discussion
Hey there.. This is my first time here so sorry if this is the wrong place to post.
So I purchased a car last year after passing my test. Just a cheap Kia Picanto. 2005 1.1 to start. Was only £350.
The only issue that was present at the time of purchase is that N/S front window is not working at all.
Wasn't too fussed, but now it's getting hotter as the summer really kicks in and I'd like to try and fix it.
Story I was told is that the driver was messing around with the front passengers window with his switch rolling it up and down during a rainy winters day to wind up his passenger. It stopped working and he never got it to work again. Luckily it stopped in the fully closed up position so he never bothered to fix it or diagnose the problem.
As I say it's so hot here now I'd like to replace the motor, but all I can find are replacements on Ebay. Not keen on Ebay, so I was thinking about swapping the rear N/S passenger motor with the front N/S motor to see if that is actually the issue. If it is the motor then I will grab one from Ebay.
Just don't want to go through the hassle of buying from Ebay just to find out that it was not the motor.
Does anyone here think that swapping out the rear N/S window motor and replacing the front N/S window motor with it that it would work ?
I'm assuming that they are essentially the same.
Just the motor and not the whole assembly.
If it's electrical would anyone have an idea as to what I would need to look for to diagnose an electrical fault for the window motor. If swapping over the motors are a no go !
All fuses are fine under dash and in engine bay.
Having my window and the two rear windows open is ok, but just not enough. And my partner wants to have it working as we do go on long drives together sometimes and she hates the heat with the window closed. That and the A/C was never refilled and just pumps out roasting hot air.
Sorry for the long rant, but hopefully someone might be able to help
So I purchased a car last year after passing my test. Just a cheap Kia Picanto. 2005 1.1 to start. Was only £350.
The only issue that was present at the time of purchase is that N/S front window is not working at all.
Wasn't too fussed, but now it's getting hotter as the summer really kicks in and I'd like to try and fix it.
Story I was told is that the driver was messing around with the front passengers window with his switch rolling it up and down during a rainy winters day to wind up his passenger. It stopped working and he never got it to work again. Luckily it stopped in the fully closed up position so he never bothered to fix it or diagnose the problem.
As I say it's so hot here now I'd like to replace the motor, but all I can find are replacements on Ebay. Not keen on Ebay, so I was thinking about swapping the rear N/S passenger motor with the front N/S motor to see if that is actually the issue. If it is the motor then I will grab one from Ebay.
Just don't want to go through the hassle of buying from Ebay just to find out that it was not the motor.
Does anyone here think that swapping out the rear N/S window motor and replacing the front N/S window motor with it that it would work ?
I'm assuming that they are essentially the same.
Just the motor and not the whole assembly.
If it's electrical would anyone have an idea as to what I would need to look for to diagnose an electrical fault for the window motor. If swapping over the motors are a no go !
All fuses are fine under dash and in engine bay.
Having my window and the two rear windows open is ok, but just not enough. And my partner wants to have it working as we do go on long drives together sometimes and she hates the heat with the window closed. That and the A/C was never refilled and just pumps out roasting hot air.
Sorry for the long rant, but hopefully someone might be able to help
If the motors are identical and identically wired with identical connectors then you could try changing them over.
Otherwise access the non operational one, find its nearest wiring connector plug & with a multimeter set to DC check for power at the connector plug when you operate the switch to see if power is present. Don't forget to have the ignition on.
If power is present then your motor is fried.
If power is not present at the plug then you need to check the switch output the same way.
If no output from the switch then check for power in to the switch.
Otherwise access the non operational one, find its nearest wiring connector plug & with a multimeter set to DC check for power at the connector plug when you operate the switch to see if power is present. Don't forget to have the ignition on.
If power is present then your motor is fried.
If power is not present at the plug then you need to check the switch output the same way.
If no output from the switch then check for power in to the switch.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 1st August 18:12
TBH why would you want to commit yourself to dismantling 2 doors at least once each & possibly twice when you can do just the one once.
Get a meter & test it as above, the switch is at least as likely as the motor & much easier & don't forget if it is the passenger one it could be either switch.
Get a meter & test it as above, the switch is at least as likely as the motor & much easier & don't forget if it is the passenger one it could be either switch.
Hey there again.. Just an update.
So.. I did some testing. Tested the plug going to the switch and found 12v on the pins. Not all of them, but out of eight, two didn't have any power.
I opened the rear door panel and tested that switch plug and it was the same. Six with 12v and two without.
So I assume for my very limited electrical knowledge that this was normal and decided not to troubleshoot the plug any further.
Now I wanted to test the plug going to the motor itself and noticed that with ignition on and hitting the switch on passenger side and drivers side that no power was going to the lead whatsoever. Not a single volt.
Me being me and the car being extremely basic I decided to swap the motors over like I mentioned in my previous post.
The front motor works perfectly fine in the rear and rear motor fits fine in the front, but has no power to it. Wasn't surprised, but I did want to rule out a burned out motor at the same time. Only took ten minutes.
So my question now is how do I troubleshoot that plug to the motor not getting power. The switch is fine as they are both getting power, but nothing happening. I have checked all power window fuses and they are all in good condition. Other than that I am at a loss as to where to look next.
Sorry to keep on, But hopefully someone can help.
Been offered a new motor and want to sell this one sometime. I have done a lot of repairs to the car.. Even some body work, but I am just not that good with electrics.
I know how to use a multi meter, but that wont help me figure out why the plug to the motor wasn't getting power.
A switch or a dead motor I can fix, but that plug and it's wiring.. Go deep withing the dash and no idea where to start !
Anyone know what I might be missing.
Thanks in advance.
So.. I did some testing. Tested the plug going to the switch and found 12v on the pins. Not all of them, but out of eight, two didn't have any power.
I opened the rear door panel and tested that switch plug and it was the same. Six with 12v and two without.
So I assume for my very limited electrical knowledge that this was normal and decided not to troubleshoot the plug any further.
Now I wanted to test the plug going to the motor itself and noticed that with ignition on and hitting the switch on passenger side and drivers side that no power was going to the lead whatsoever. Not a single volt.
Me being me and the car being extremely basic I decided to swap the motors over like I mentioned in my previous post.
The front motor works perfectly fine in the rear and rear motor fits fine in the front, but has no power to it. Wasn't surprised, but I did want to rule out a burned out motor at the same time. Only took ten minutes.
So my question now is how do I troubleshoot that plug to the motor not getting power. The switch is fine as they are both getting power, but nothing happening. I have checked all power window fuses and they are all in good condition. Other than that I am at a loss as to where to look next.
Sorry to keep on, But hopefully someone can help.
Been offered a new motor and want to sell this one sometime. I have done a lot of repairs to the car.. Even some body work, but I am just not that good with electrics.
I know how to use a multi meter, but that wont help me figure out why the plug to the motor wasn't getting power.
A switch or a dead motor I can fix, but that plug and it's wiring.. Go deep withing the dash and no idea where to start !
Anyone know what I might be missing.
Thanks in advance.
Before getting too involved, make a note of the colours of the cables that are connected to the motor that isn't working, now find those same coloured cables inside the car or where they exit the A Post and enter the door wiring loom, now with the motor and all switches disconnected you can check the motor cables to see if they are broken in the door loom due to the opening and closing of the door weakening them
PositronicRay said:
Something I find useful is insulation piercing probes on my meter.
Piercing probes have earned me good money over the years, they're ok as long as the user remembers to insulate over their created holes, if not insulated then the corrosion does begin, not too bad inside the vehicle thoughPenelope Stopit said:
Before getting too involved, make a note of the colours of the cables that are connected to the motor that isn't working, now find those same coloured cables inside the car or where they exit the A Post and enter the door wiring loom, now with the motor and all switches disconnected you can check the motor cables to see if they are broken in the door loom due to the opening and closing of the door weakening them
I was thinking maybe that could be a possible cause, but the previous owner did say that the windows just stopped while they were driving and messing with the switch on both their sides.I guess I'll just follow the leads through the door and the post to see if maybe they are broken at some point.
Post back your findings and someone will help you
Have you seen this, I found it through Google and there is a PDF file covering all Picanto electrics yet it's dated for 2010 onwards although it may well match your car
I can't see anything about copyright etc
https://carmanualsclub.com/kia-picanto-workshop-re...
Note that very often LH and RH drive cars are the same but mirror imaged
Have you seen this, I found it through Google and there is a PDF file covering all Picanto electrics yet it's dated for 2010 onwards although it may well match your car
I can't see anything about copyright etc
https://carmanualsclub.com/kia-picanto-workshop-re...
Note that very often LH and RH drive cars are the same but mirror imaged
Penelope Stopit said:
Post back your findings and someone will help you
Have you seen this, I found it through Google and there is a PDF file covering all Picanto electrics yet it's dated for 2010 onwards although it may well match your car
I can't see anything about copyright etc
https://carmanualsclub.com/kia-picanto-workshop-re...
Note that very often LH and RH drive cars are the same but mirror imaged
So I took a look at that page and noticed the PDF for the 2003+ models were in Russian, A shame. All the other PDF's were in other languages also.Have you seen this, I found it through Google and there is a PDF file covering all Picanto electrics yet it's dated for 2010 onwards although it may well match your car
I can't see anything about copyright etc
https://carmanualsclub.com/kia-picanto-workshop-re...
Note that very often LH and RH drive cars are the same but mirror imaged
Anyway. I opened up the door panel and followed the wires from the plug as far back as I could and couldn't find any breaks at all. I'm assuming now that it's much deeper within the dash which I was really worried about. Even running a continuity test while moving the wires around made no difference.
Spoke with the previous owner and was told that their previous owner had almost written off the car a long time ago, So maybe that could contribute to the wiring issue.
So.. Using the meter I wanted to find the pins that had power being applied to them by operating the drivers side switch and found it was the upper most pins.
Tested the pins of the same gauge on the lower part of the plug whilst operating the passenger side switch didn't show any readings on the meter.
I disconnected the lower pins and put the upper pins there instead and now the windows rolls up and down.
I wanted to try something. Probably not smart, but wanted to try nonetheless. (For a very very short duration)
I applied the lower pins to the top and tried the passenger side switch and that worked.
Window rolled up and down. Albeit very very slowly until it stopped and then noticed the driver side didn't work either.
Checked the fuse and yeah.. A blown 25A fuse. Not short enough duration.
Not sure why it's so slow, but didn't worry myself with it.
So I have completely sealed up the lower pins for the passenger side with electrical tape and tucked them out of the way for the time being as there really isn't much else I can do. No power going through those pins, but just to be on the safe side, Sealed and tucked away.
Left the drivers side switch pins in the place of the passenger side and just left it at that and all is good. Can roll the window up and down and the fuse stays intact. Lucky there was a spare 25A fuse.
The drivers side switch operated the passenger window at the same speed as the other windows. So hopefully I can leave it like that.
Really don't think there is anything else I can do that doesn't involve ripping the dash out and searching all the way back there.
Going to be sold sometime in the next six to twelve months I hope. Can't ask too much for it as it's getting very old. And will eventually need more work done to it that it's worth.
Shame really I've recently only just got it over 100k miles and done some good repairs to it. And the MOT passed with only a couple advisories.
Thanks for the help. If anyone has any other suggestions or ideas please let me know.
On a quick note.
Why would connecting the lower passenger side and upper driver side pins together and operating the passenger switch blow the fuse ? Wire length and gauge ?
Like I say I'm not great with anything electrical. Can do basic things, but not when it comes to figuring out something like this.
The windows would roll up and down very slowly. then got even slower and slower to the point where it would not work at all. That's when I noticed the blown fuse.
Without upping the fuse to 30A which I wouldn't do as I do understand the consequences. Is there anything I can do to leave them connected and stay within the safe operating amperage ?
Why would connecting the lower passenger side and upper driver side pins together and operating the passenger switch blow the fuse ? Wire length and gauge ?
Like I say I'm not great with anything electrical. Can do basic things, but not when it comes to figuring out something like this.
The windows would roll up and down very slowly. then got even slower and slower to the point where it would not work at all. That's when I noticed the blown fuse.
Without upping the fuse to 30A which I wouldn't do as I do understand the consequences. Is there anything I can do to leave them connected and stay within the safe operating amperage ?
So if I have got this right you managed to get a (previously) not working window to wind down by using a (previously working) part of the wiring loom.
If that is correct you have likely stumbled across what could well be the issue.
The slow window is virtually seized and as it slows down it draws more current blowing the fuse.
Get the motor/runners/gears lubricated & try again with a fresh fuse.
If that is correct you have likely stumbled across what could well be the issue.
The slow window is virtually seized and as it slows down it draws more current blowing the fuse.
Get the motor/runners/gears lubricated & try again with a fresh fuse.
E-bmw said:
So if I have got this right you managed to get a (previously) not working window to wind down by using a (previously working) part of the wiring loom.
If that is correct you have likely stumbled across what could well be the issue.
The slow window is virtually seized and as it slows down it draws more current blowing the fuse.
Get the motor/runners/gears lubricated & try again with a fresh fuse.
Correct.. I used the wiring on the drivers side passenger switch that was working in place of the passenger side switch that was not working.If that is correct you have likely stumbled across what could well be the issue.
The slow window is virtually seized and as it slows down it draws more current blowing the fuse.
Get the motor/runners/gears lubricated & try again with a fresh fuse.
Really not sure what the issue is with the passenger side wiring. I can't dive deep enough to find the issue. As Penelope Stopit mentioned the wiring might be broken within the door loom. All seemed fine there. Followed as far as I could without ripping dash out. Which I could do, but not going to even attempt. Been a long time since I even did something like that.
The window only rolls up and down slowly when operating the passenger side switch which then blows the fuse. Operating the drivers side passenger switch rolls the window up and down at normal speeds and doesn't blow the fuse.
As I mentioned previously the passenger switch only blew the fuse when I attached that wiring to the drivers side passenger switch to test. I did that for a very short duration and it worked, but it seems that even that short flick of the switch was too long.
It does seem that the window motor has been out of service for a very long time and might be in need of a bit of lubrication.
So I'll definitely need to get onto that. When it's not raining.
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