E92 M3 to 981 Boxster S: a few pre-purchase questions...
Discussion
Not so much a spoiler, but some TLDR introduction/waffle which I’ll save you from if you’d rather skip to the reason for the thread...
I’ve got an E92 M3 Competition Pack at the moment, I’ve addressed the ‘issues’ which I had with it; average brakes and slightly high driving position with AP brakes and Recaro CS’ up front, so now it feels much better to drive as a result.
I have also recently moved house and as part of the move I have decided to add to the disruption and stress by reducing/changing some of the cars I’ve got, one of which being the M3. I love the engine/noise and the looks, so there are very few other cars which I would consider as a replacement and I’m not going to change it for the sake of it... especially as the newer performance options seem to be almost totally dominated by automatic cars and given my cars’ weekend only/6 monthly use I will choose a manual for as long as I still can.
One of the cars I’ve liked the look of since their launch was the 981 Boxster/Cayman, which leads me here:
Has anyone gone from an E9* M3 or similar and changed into a 981S? After the dust settled and the new car shine dulled a bit, did you have any regrets?
I’ve seen a Boxster S which I’m interested in, it’s a 2015 ‘15’ plate car and has covered just over 12500 miles. It ticks a lot of boxes and is very close to what I would have ordered had I been sitting in an OPC specifying a Boxster S back in 2015.
The dealer has sent me the rev range readings; from what I understand there are 6 ranges, increasing in severity. Here are the results he sent for this particular car...
Rev-Range 1 - 1761 ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
Rev-Range 2 - 113 ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
Rev-Range 3 - 15 Ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
...could you guys take a look and let me know whether this is a good, average or poor result please.
Also I find that I sit too high in most cars as standard, how is the 981 Boxster for interior space and headroom? I can’t see one for sale locally which I could try for size; but even if I could, the one I’m looking at has the carbon bucket seats so I may not get a good representation of space and headroom in a car with standard seats... I’m actually hoping that the optional seats sit even lower than standard seats, which will buy me a little extra space!!
Apologies for the long post.. I thought it best to keep it contained in one topic, rather than starting several smaller ones?!
Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.
I’ve got an E92 M3 Competition Pack at the moment, I’ve addressed the ‘issues’ which I had with it; average brakes and slightly high driving position with AP brakes and Recaro CS’ up front, so now it feels much better to drive as a result.
I have also recently moved house and as part of the move I have decided to add to the disruption and stress by reducing/changing some of the cars I’ve got, one of which being the M3. I love the engine/noise and the looks, so there are very few other cars which I would consider as a replacement and I’m not going to change it for the sake of it... especially as the newer performance options seem to be almost totally dominated by automatic cars and given my cars’ weekend only/6 monthly use I will choose a manual for as long as I still can.
One of the cars I’ve liked the look of since their launch was the 981 Boxster/Cayman, which leads me here:
Has anyone gone from an E9* M3 or similar and changed into a 981S? After the dust settled and the new car shine dulled a bit, did you have any regrets?
I’ve seen a Boxster S which I’m interested in, it’s a 2015 ‘15’ plate car and has covered just over 12500 miles. It ticks a lot of boxes and is very close to what I would have ordered had I been sitting in an OPC specifying a Boxster S back in 2015.
The dealer has sent me the rev range readings; from what I understand there are 6 ranges, increasing in severity. Here are the results he sent for this particular car...
Rev-Range 1 - 1761 ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
Rev-Range 2 - 113 ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
Rev-Range 3 - 15 Ignitions @ 104.67 Hours
...could you guys take a look and let me know whether this is a good, average or poor result please.
Also I find that I sit too high in most cars as standard, how is the 981 Boxster for interior space and headroom? I can’t see one for sale locally which I could try for size; but even if I could, the one I’m looking at has the carbon bucket seats so I may not get a good representation of space and headroom in a car with standard seats... I’m actually hoping that the optional seats sit even lower than standard seats, which will buy me a little extra space!!
Apologies for the long post.. I thought it best to keep it contained in one topic, rather than starting several smaller ones?!
Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated.
Edited by RS Grant on Saturday 3rd August 10:16
88racing said:
Those rev range readings - all together like that - wonder if someone put it on a dyno?
Possibly.After doing some reading I was lead to believe that running into the rev limiter on acceleration could register a reading in range 1 and a slight mis-shift coming down the gearbox could bring up readings in range 2 and possibly 3... but it’s time to walk away from a car once you start seeing readings in ranges 4, 5 and/or 6.
Surely that's just one over-rev, with the higher readings being the peakier moments of the event. Hence 1 bigger than 2, and 2 bigger than 3.
If it's an OPC you're dealing with they simply won't buy and don't sell cars with too many over-revs. I can't remember the number but I think it's five.
Something as simple as a missed gear can cause this on a manual car.
I don't see how you could over-rev simply running the car on a dyno, the rev limiter would kick in just the same as when you're accelerating on the road. You're much more likely to over-rev simply by flooring the throttle in neutral or accidentally selecting the wrong gear on a downchange.
I can't find the over-rev ranges for 981 but for 987 they were,
Range 1 - 7200 to 7500
Range 2 - 7500 to 7700
Range 3 - 7700 to 7900
Range 4 - 7900 to 8400
Range 5 - 9400 to 9500
Range 6 - over 9500
On this basis I don't think you have anything to fret about.
If it's an OPC you're dealing with they simply won't buy and don't sell cars with too many over-revs. I can't remember the number but I think it's five.
Something as simple as a missed gear can cause this on a manual car.
I don't see how you could over-rev simply running the car on a dyno, the rev limiter would kick in just the same as when you're accelerating on the road. You're much more likely to over-rev simply by flooring the throttle in neutral or accidentally selecting the wrong gear on a downchange.
I can't find the over-rev ranges for 981 but for 987 they were,
Range 1 - 7200 to 7500
Range 2 - 7500 to 7700
Range 3 - 7700 to 7900
Range 4 - 7900 to 8400
Range 5 - 9400 to 9500
Range 6 - over 9500
On this basis I don't think you have anything to fret about.
rockin said:
Surely that's just one over-rev, with the higher readings being the peakier moments of the event. Hence 1 bigger than 2, and 2 bigger than 3.
If it's an OPC you're dealing with they simply won't buy and don't sell cars with too many over-revs. I can't remember the number but I think it's five.
Something as simple as a missed gear can cause this on a manual car.
I don't see how you could over-rev simply running the car on a dyno, the rev limiter would kick in just the same as when you're accelerating on the road. You're much more likely to over-rev simply by flooring the throttle in neutral or accidentally selecting the wrong gear on a downchange.
I can't find the over-rev ranges for 981 but for 987 they were,
Range 1 - 7200 to 7500
Range 2 - 7500 to 7700
Range 3 - 7700 to 7900
Range 4 - 7900 to 8400
Range 5 - 9400 to 9500
Range 6 - over 9500
On this basis I don't think you have anything to fret about.
Annoyingly Porsche don’t like them in range 3 these days.If it's an OPC you're dealing with they simply won't buy and don't sell cars with too many over-revs. I can't remember the number but I think it's five.
Something as simple as a missed gear can cause this on a manual car.
I don't see how you could over-rev simply running the car on a dyno, the rev limiter would kick in just the same as when you're accelerating on the road. You're much more likely to over-rev simply by flooring the throttle in neutral or accidentally selecting the wrong gear on a downchange.
I can't find the over-rev ranges for 981 but for 987 they were,
Range 1 - 7200 to 7500
Range 2 - 7500 to 7700
Range 3 - 7700 to 7900
Range 4 - 7900 to 8400
Range 5 - 9400 to 9500
Range 6 - over 9500
On this basis I don't think you have anything to fret about.
So would be an issue depending on total operating hours which is missing.
But the car would need a leak down test to put a warranty on it.
You cannot overrev flooring it in neutral the car has a soft and hard limited to stop it going above range 2.
Range 3 is a miss shift, and they are all at the same time as you have to go through. 1 and 2 to get to 3 :-) hence the same reading.
Done at circa 3k miles at a guess.
I didn't make quite the same swap, but I did go from 987.2 Boxster S (same DFI engine as the one you're looking at) to a E92 Comp pack.
The Porsches perhaps lack a bit of drama in comparison to the V8 + MDM, but the fact they are a purpose-built sports car from the ground up shines through in every other regard.
Good luck.
The Porsches perhaps lack a bit of drama in comparison to the V8 + MDM, but the fact they are a purpose-built sports car from the ground up shines through in every other regard.
Good luck.
I went from a manual e90 M3 to a manual Boxster 981S.
Barring the fact that i still have to run two cars (335i/335d as a daily), its better than the M3 to drive in pretty much everyway.
Except the feeling of having an engine far big/too stupid for the car, which is what makes an M3 so amusing.
Getting out of the M3 in the wet, to test drive the Porsche in the same conditions was incredible. So much grip and poise.
I bought it there and then, spending way more than i had intended to
Still got it 3 years later which says a lot i guess.
Barring the fact that i still have to run two cars (335i/335d as a daily), its better than the M3 to drive in pretty much everyway.
Except the feeling of having an engine far big/too stupid for the car, which is what makes an M3 so amusing.
Getting out of the M3 in the wet, to test drive the Porsche in the same conditions was incredible. So much grip and poise.
I bought it there and then, spending way more than i had intended to
Still got it 3 years later which says a lot i guess.
I've gone from a 981 Boxster S PDK to an E92 M3 CP DCT which is my current weekend toy.
Imho I'm finding the M3 inadequate and not a patch on the driving experience the 981 S gave me. The 981 is much sharper, more composed, better handling, better balanced and more fun and thrilling to drive and feels special to me unlike the M3. In hindsight, I should have got a loan for the home Improvements then sell the 981 and step down into an E92 M3 CP. Gutted. I'll learn from this mistake I hope.
Having said that, I think the M3 is obviously a very good car (my 7th M car), but more a comfy daily with a nice V8 (if somewhat muted) and quicker in a straight line once into silly figures but it's no sportscar and not the best choice by me for a weekend car.
Imho I'm finding the M3 inadequate and not a patch on the driving experience the 981 S gave me. The 981 is much sharper, more composed, better handling, better balanced and more fun and thrilling to drive and feels special to me unlike the M3. In hindsight, I should have got a loan for the home Improvements then sell the 981 and step down into an E92 M3 CP. Gutted. I'll learn from this mistake I hope.
Having said that, I think the M3 is obviously a very good car (my 7th M car), but more a comfy daily with a nice V8 (if somewhat muted) and quicker in a straight line once into silly figures but it's no sportscar and not the best choice by me for a weekend car.
I went from an e92 M3 Manual comp pack to a 981 GT4.
To be honest I miss the Engine from the M3. It was more rewarding and characterful. The Gt4 engine is a bit flat at the top of the Rev range.
The HK stereo in the M3 was great, and the Porsche is crap.
For pretty much everything else the Porsche is way ahead. Handling is on another level.
A nagging doubt is that I used to enjoy the M3 as sane speeds, whereas the GT4 ends up being Cained to really enjoy it. I imagine the 981 S will be similar.
To be honest I miss the Engine from the M3. It was more rewarding and characterful. The Gt4 engine is a bit flat at the top of the Rev range.
The HK stereo in the M3 was great, and the Porsche is crap.
For pretty much everything else the Porsche is way ahead. Handling is on another level.
A nagging doubt is that I used to enjoy the M3 as sane speeds, whereas the GT4 ends up being Cained to really enjoy it. I imagine the 981 S will be similar.
ratty6464 said:
I went from an e92 M3 Manual comp pack to a 981 GT4.
To be honest I miss the Engine from the M3. It was more rewarding and characterful. The Gt4 engine is a bit flat at the top of the Rev range.
The HK stereo in the M3 was great, and the Porsche is crap.
For pretty much everything else the Porsche is way ahead. Handling is on another level.
A nagging doubt is that I used to enjoy the M3 as sane speeds, whereas the GT4 ends up being Cained to really enjoy it. I imagine the 981 S will be similar.
I find it the opposite. The M3 feeling cumbersome and mundane when pootling around town and only enjoyable if you can find open space to stretch its legs. The Boxster in comparison just feels much more alive at any speeds but especially so when having a hoon where I found it scintillating to drive, hood down, PSE on and that flat 6 screaming away right behind you! Perhaps I'm giving my car a harsh time but really, its not the car's fault but mine as I made the mistake of thinking it would make a fun weekend car and it just doesn't on any level for me. To be honest I miss the Engine from the M3. It was more rewarding and characterful. The Gt4 engine is a bit flat at the top of the Rev range.
The HK stereo in the M3 was great, and the Porsche is crap.
For pretty much everything else the Porsche is way ahead. Handling is on another level.
A nagging doubt is that I used to enjoy the M3 as sane speeds, whereas the GT4 ends up being Cained to really enjoy it. I imagine the 981 S will be similar.
zainster said:
I find it the opposite. The M3 feeling cumbersome and mundane when pootling around town and only enjoyable if you can find open space to stretch its legs. The Boxster in comparison just feels much more alive at any speeds but especially so when having a hoon where I found it scintillating to drive, hood down, PSE on and that flat 6 screaming away right behind you! Perhaps I'm giving my car a harsh time but really, its not the car's fault but mine as I made the mistake of thinking it would make a fun weekend car and it just doesn't on any level for me.
Which M3 did you have? I agree they can feel a bit cumbersome on a hoon. But with pilot sport 4S tyres, an evolve remap with raised rev limit and manual gear box I found the M3 very engaging. I drove a few DCT and found them a bit dull around town, where the manual was fun.
ratty6464 said:
zainster said:
I find it the opposite. The M3 feeling cumbersome and mundane when pootling around town and only enjoyable if you can find open space to stretch its legs. The Boxster in comparison just feels much more alive at any speeds but especially so when having a hoon where I found it scintillating to drive, hood down, PSE on and that flat 6 screaming away right behind you! Perhaps I'm giving my car a harsh time but really, its not the car's fault but mine as I made the mistake of thinking it would make a fun weekend car and it just doesn't on any level for me.
Which M3 did you have? I agree they can feel a bit cumbersome on a hoon. But with pilot sport 4S tyres, an evolve remap with raised rev limit and manual gear box I found the M3 very engaging. I drove a few DCT and found them a bit dull around town, where the manual was fun.
I rate the DCT gearbox, it's very good. I'm not a fan of BMW manual gearboxes. Perhaps modifying will improve it but imho not enough to compete against the 981. On every road surface, it just doesn't feel anywhere near as sharp or brilliant as my 981. But I sold the 981 to release funds for home improvements and buy something cheaper that was still going to be fun. Im sure if it wasn't following on from my 981 S, I'd probably enjoyed it much more but sadly for me it's not the case and I'm really struggling to feel any excitement from it. I didn't even feel excited about it on the test drive but it was such a great example I bought it.
It's got some pluses in that it looks nice enough, is comfy and sounds decent. 4 seats too and a decent boot. Attributes perhaps I don't need for a weekend car! Lol
zainster said:
I've got a 2012 low miles E92 M3 DCT Competition Pack car. Cars got super sport tyres all round, nearly new on the front and 4.5mm on the rears. Standard car, will remain that way as its under BMW warranty.
I rate the DCT gearbox, it's very good. I'm not a fan of BMW manual gearboxes. Perhaps modifying will improve it but imho not enough to compete against the 981. On every road surface, it just doesn't feel anywhere near as sharp or brilliant as my 981. But I sold the 981 to release funds for home improvements and buy something cheaper that was still going to be fun. Im sure if it wasn't following on from my 981 S, I'd probably enjoyed it much more but sadly for me it's not the case and I'm really struggling to feel any excitement from it. I didn't even feel excited about it on the test drive but it was such a great example I bought it.
It's got some pluses in that it looks nice enough, is comfy and sounds decent. 4 seats too and a decent boot. Attributes perhaps I don't need for a weekend car! Lol
Really interesting observations, and pretty much mirror my experiences going 987.2 to E92 M3 CP.I rate the DCT gearbox, it's very good. I'm not a fan of BMW manual gearboxes. Perhaps modifying will improve it but imho not enough to compete against the 981. On every road surface, it just doesn't feel anywhere near as sharp or brilliant as my 981. But I sold the 981 to release funds for home improvements and buy something cheaper that was still going to be fun. Im sure if it wasn't following on from my 981 S, I'd probably enjoyed it much more but sadly for me it's not the case and I'm really struggling to feel any excitement from it. I didn't even feel excited about it on the test drive but it was such a great example I bought it.
It's got some pluses in that it looks nice enough, is comfy and sounds decent. 4 seats too and a decent boot. Attributes perhaps I don't need for a weekend car! Lol
I also regret selling my Boxster. I don't think I appreciated quite how good it was until I cycled through 2 x E92s (with a host of associated problems) and have test driven some rivals since.
The M3 is a challenging, characterful but flawed gem. The Boxster was a touch characterless but otherwise pretty flawless.
How tall are you OP? The folding carbon buckets are not height adjustable and whilst they are suited for the average height range if you're at either extreme it may be a problem.
There's a good description of the Rev range data on the 911virgin web site. From memory Rev Range 1 is 'at or close to the limiter' and can be discounted. RR2 is OK whilst the higher ranges bring other factors into play
There's a good description of the Rev range data on the 911virgin web site. From memory Rev Range 1 is 'at or close to the limiter' and can be discounted. RR2 is OK whilst the higher ranges bring other factors into play
KPB1973 said:
Really interesting observations, and pretty much mirror my experiences going 987.2 to E92 M3 CP.
I also regret selling my Boxster. I don't think I appreciated quite how good it was until I cycled through 2 x E92s (with a host of associated problems) and have test driven some rivals since.
The M3 is a challenging, characterful but flawed gem. The Boxster was a touch characterless but otherwise pretty flawless.
Agreed although I always found the 981 felt special unlike the M3. It's the whole experience of owning a Porsche. I loved it way more than any car I've owned and I've had close to 40 over the years!I also regret selling my Boxster. I don't think I appreciated quite how good it was until I cycled through 2 x E92s (with a host of associated problems) and have test driven some rivals since.
The M3 is a challenging, characterful but flawed gem. The Boxster was a touch characterless but otherwise pretty flawless.
Yes I made the change a few years back, loved the M3 I used it as all rounder alongside my S2000. I'd done the usual, some suspension work and made it louder and was pretty happy with it but after 4 yrs I decided a change was necessary.
Prefer the 981 in just about every way but I do miss a few things about the BMW, the top end of the S65 and the playful rear end.
The Porsche is a more accomplished car that when driven back to back feels like it goes about its business without feeling that it's being pushed. It may seem boring at first but the on edge feeling just comes a bit later.
Prefer the 981 in just about every way but I do miss a few things about the BMW, the top end of the S65 and the playful rear end.
The Porsche is a more accomplished car that when driven back to back feels like it goes about its business without feeling that it's being pushed. It may seem boring at first but the on edge feeling just comes a bit later.
testdrive said:
Yes I made the change a few years back, loved the M3 I used it as all rounder alongside my S2000. I'd done the usual, some suspension work and made it louder and was pretty happy with it but after 4 yrs I decided a change was necessary.
Prefer the 981 in just about every way but I do miss a few things about the BMW, the top end of the S65 and the playful rear end.
The Porsche is a more accomplished car that when driven back to back feels like it goes about its business without feeling that it's being pushed. It may seem boring at first but the on edge feeling just comes a bit later.
Ah the S2000 - I had one and it's one of my ole favourites too. Thing is, the top end of the S65 doesn't impress me all that much as I also had an E60 M5 and an F10 M5 Competition Pack car and compared to both those and especially the latter, were significantly faster and much stronger at the top. So for me the E92 is good but it doesn't blow my socks off in any area. Prefer the 981 in just about every way but I do miss a few things about the BMW, the top end of the S65 and the playful rear end.
The Porsche is a more accomplished car that when driven back to back feels like it goes about its business without feeling that it's being pushed. It may seem boring at first but the on edge feeling just comes a bit later.
I think that an E9x M3 is a car to enjoy alongside a Cayster, rather than as a direct comparator or substitute.
As a car to take out for a proper drive, the M3 is nowhere near as good as a Cayster in my opinion. It's a great contrast though, and you can cover ground it it very quickly, but it's nowhere near as involving. It's the weight mainly, but also the balance and feel.
Admittedly this may be depend a little on your own driving style and preferences, but for me it's absolutely no contest in terms of which one I'd keep as a weekend car if push came to shove.
I have owned Caymans continually since 2006 and have had an E90 M3 since 2009.
As a car to take out for a proper drive, the M3 is nowhere near as good as a Cayster in my opinion. It's a great contrast though, and you can cover ground it it very quickly, but it's nowhere near as involving. It's the weight mainly, but also the balance and feel.
Admittedly this may be depend a little on your own driving style and preferences, but for me it's absolutely no contest in terms of which one I'd keep as a weekend car if push came to shove.
I have owned Caymans continually since 2006 and have had an E90 M3 since 2009.
Thanks for your reply, appreciated especially given your current fleet.
No doubting I struggle somewhat with the weight of the E92, & it’s brakes though I’m not sure that’s not psychological as I’ve read for so long they’re weak.
It’s quite possible if I do go down this route that I’ll have both for a while as the Cayman will be my daily, at least unless I find it a bit restrictive in which case I’ll likely get a hot hatch to sit alongside.
I had a MK3 MR2 between 2002-08 and I’m
hoping the Cayman will be a little like a more mature version. Being a bespoke sports car it should prove enjoyable I’m hoping.
No doubting I struggle somewhat with the weight of the E92, & it’s brakes though I’m not sure that’s not psychological as I’ve read for so long they’re weak.
It’s quite possible if I do go down this route that I’ll have both for a while as the Cayman will be my daily, at least unless I find it a bit restrictive in which case I’ll likely get a hot hatch to sit alongside.
I had a MK3 MR2 between 2002-08 and I’m
hoping the Cayman will be a little like a more mature version. Being a bespoke sports car it should prove enjoyable I’m hoping.
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