electric motorcycles
Discussion
so this thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... has got me interested in electric bikes, and i ended up looking at these:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/
Basically if costs come down I can see this really being a cheap travel method.
One thing I've always thought with cars and bikes is why not have exchangeable batteries. You pull up at what is a petrol station and swap if you will for one with charge. I realize this is harder with cars but as well as the main ones, could they not have some in the boot you could do this with to get you to your proper destination before charge.
Anyway looks like Yamaha are looking into it.
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/has-yamaha...
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/range/
Basically if costs come down I can see this really being a cheap travel method.
One thing I've always thought with cars and bikes is why not have exchangeable batteries. You pull up at what is a petrol station and swap if you will for one with charge. I realize this is harder with cars but as well as the main ones, could they not have some in the boot you could do this with to get you to your proper destination before charge.
Anyway looks like Yamaha are looking into it.
https://www.visordown.com/news/industry/has-yamaha...
It’s a trickier proposition with bikes vs cars (let’s exclude crappy scooters) when it comes to electric as I would hazard a guess that a big slice of new bike sales are pleasure orientated vs commuting tools, probably the opposite for new car sales. This means that most of us don’t give much of a monkeys about fuel economy on bikes (car drivers get obsessed with it) and the noise of a bike is also very important to riders. I can’t see there being any meaningful performance gains with e bikes like what we see with electric cars. 200bhp at one wheel via ICE is sufficiently mental.
Ilovejapcrap said:
One thing I've always thought with cars and bikes is why not have exchangeable batteries.
Two very simple reasons.The battery is an integral part of the car. It's tightly packaged, it's sometimes a structural part of the car and the electrical bonding needs to be spot on. You don't want it to be a DIY job, or something that deteriorates over time.
Secondly, batteries do degrade with time and use. I'm not saying it's significant, but it's a reality. Why would you trade your perfectly good and well treated (slow charge, 20-80 usage) battery for an abused (rapid, 0-100) one?
For electrically assisted it makes sense to remove the battery for ease of charging and security.
Jag_NE said:
It’s a trickier proposition with bikes vs cars (let’s exclude crappy scooters) when it comes to electric as I would hazard a guess that a big slice of new bike sales are pleasure orientated vs commuting tools, probably the opposite for new car sales. This means that most of us don’t give much of a monkeys about fuel economy on bikes (car drivers get obsessed with it) and the noise of a bike is also very important to riders. I can’t see there being any meaningful performance gains with e bikes like what we see with electric cars. 200bhp at one wheel via ICE is sufficiently mental.
But there will be performance gains. For many bikes, the torque will be substantially higher at lower revs than previously available for motorcycles. Acceleration around town from standstill will be swift and virtually silent. Parking and charging facilities will be more compact than for cars. The limited range would not be an issue for commuting and short leisure rides. I see the growth potential greater than that for cars as a percentage of each mode of transport.Pica-Pica said:
Jag_NE said:
It’s a trickier proposition with bikes vs cars (let’s exclude crappy scooters) when it comes to electric as I would hazard a guess that a big slice of new bike sales are pleasure orientated vs commuting tools, probably the opposite for new car sales. This means that most of us don’t give much of a monkeys about fuel economy on bikes (car drivers get obsessed with it) and the noise of a bike is also very important to riders. I can’t see there being any meaningful performance gains with e bikes like what we see with electric cars. 200bhp at one wheel via ICE is sufficiently mental.
But there will be performance gains. For many bikes, the torque will be substantially higher at lower revs than previously available for motorcycles. Acceleration around town from standstill will be swift and virtually silent. Parking and charging facilities will be more compact than for cars. The limited range would not be an issue for commuting and short leisure rides. I see the growth potential greater than that for cars as a percentage of each mode of transport.Many people are concerned with the safety of silent bikes. More people walk out or pull out in front of silent vehicles, a study in USA showed. We can call the people doing so fools, but noise does make others more aware of your presence. Far more animals run out if they don't hear a vehicle coming and also birds like owls which rely on sound rather than sight are more likely to die. A bike hitting a deer is no fun at all as i found out in northern Michigan in 2017.
Electric vehicles for me really are a mixed bag. Quick and clean. But then fuelling my petrol bike takes me 5 minutes. Fuel is everywhere, just about. People know i'm around. If not stupidly loud i enjoy the sound of something like my Suzuki 1340's tunes, played by a set of Two Brothers carbon cans.
I suppose the bottom line is what do you want a bike for? If it's for doing 3 miles each way to get to work in the middle of London or Birmingham, get an electric bike. If it's for tackling lanes, open A roads and some track days and the occasional longer journey as is my riding trend then get a combustion engine.
The bikes i have at present, a KTM Duke 690R, a Suzuki B King and a classic rotary engine Suzuki offer me a range of thrills and experiences and sounds no electric bike will ever offer me. I'd have one for commuting and that's it, but i don't commute.
Electric vehicles for me really are a mixed bag. Quick and clean. But then fuelling my petrol bike takes me 5 minutes. Fuel is everywhere, just about. People know i'm around. If not stupidly loud i enjoy the sound of something like my Suzuki 1340's tunes, played by a set of Two Brothers carbon cans.
I suppose the bottom line is what do you want a bike for? If it's for doing 3 miles each way to get to work in the middle of London or Birmingham, get an electric bike. If it's for tackling lanes, open A roads and some track days and the occasional longer journey as is my riding trend then get a combustion engine.
The bikes i have at present, a KTM Duke 690R, a Suzuki B King and a classic rotary engine Suzuki offer me a range of thrills and experiences and sounds no electric bike will ever offer me. I'd have one for commuting and that's it, but i don't commute.
I had a Zero Motorcycles bike on loan for a bit.
Did the sensible think of taking it straight on a Donny trackday. The torque is immense, same as a gsxr 1000 on an A2 legal bike...
Battery didn't like being flatout all the time, great fun leaving black lines on this silent assassin though. Something on the dash about starting to overheat and needing a rest.
Then I settled back into the sensible life and commuted 25 miles each way (motorway and dual carriage way) a day on it. From memory it used approx 55-65% battery of motorway speed stuff, in sport mode. Being sensible in ECO mode used a bit less, as did just pootling around down.
It cost about £2.30 for a full charge and '100 mile range'
It was comfortable, and would be very good when the prices come down as a short commuter. I plugged it in every night as the charging takes a rather boring 9 hours.
This was back in 2017 and I was on the Zero SR - things might have moved on a bit since then.
Did the sensible think of taking it straight on a Donny trackday. The torque is immense, same as a gsxr 1000 on an A2 legal bike...
Battery didn't like being flatout all the time, great fun leaving black lines on this silent assassin though. Something on the dash about starting to overheat and needing a rest.
Then I settled back into the sensible life and commuted 25 miles each way (motorway and dual carriage way) a day on it. From memory it used approx 55-65% battery of motorway speed stuff, in sport mode. Being sensible in ECO mode used a bit less, as did just pootling around down.
It cost about £2.30 for a full charge and '100 mile range'
It was comfortable, and would be very good when the prices come down as a short commuter. I plugged it in every night as the charging takes a rather boring 9 hours.
This was back in 2017 and I was on the Zero SR - things might have moved on a bit since then.
rodericb said:
Pica-Pica said:
Jag_NE said:
It’s a trickier proposition with bikes vs cars (let’s exclude crappy scooters) when it comes to electric as I would hazard a guess that a big slice of new bike sales are pleasure orientated vs commuting tools, probably the opposite for new car sales. This means that most of us don’t give much of a monkeys about fuel economy on bikes (car drivers get obsessed with it) and the noise of a bike is also very important to riders. I can’t see there being any meaningful performance gains with e bikes like what we see with electric cars. 200bhp at one wheel via ICE is sufficiently mental.
But there will be performance gains. For many bikes, the torque will be substantially higher at lower revs than previously available for motorcycles. Acceleration around town from standstill will be swift and virtually silent. Parking and charging facilities will be more compact than for cars. The limited range would not be an issue for commuting and short leisure rides. I see the growth potential greater than that for cars as a percentage of each mode of transport.I’d have a Zero tomorrow for my commute, the only thing standing in the way of that is the cost. To make a bike financially viable when you are putting in 60 odd miles a day it needs to pay for itself when stacked up against public transport etc.
Think the Zero one they do now is circa £20k, having actually looked at one a while back I can’t really understand why they are so expensive, even given the R&D costs at the moment.
Anyway I’d have one and keep my other bike for the weekend blast
Think the Zero one they do now is circa £20k, having actually looked at one a while back I can’t really understand why they are so expensive, even given the R&D costs at the moment.
Anyway I’d have one and keep my other bike for the weekend blast
I could be interested in an electric commuter to save money and hassle; so an electric maxi scooter or an electric Honda NC750 type of thing. My fun bike will always be internal combustion because I love engines.
An electric push bike would be great for a short to medium commute, especially in an urban setting.
An electric push bike would be great for a short to medium commute, especially in an urban setting.
KAgantua said:
Surely the car companies need to look at swappable batteries at some point? I get they are an integral part of the car, and are 'nailed in' but it would icnrease flexibility so much...
Who warranties the batteries though...they degrade over time, so you replace yours at the charge point and end up with some worn out one that gives you 30% less range....dont think the battery swap is going to help with current tech.
However I read elsewhere that BP reckon they have as many charging points as they do petrol stations https://bpchargemaster.com/polar/
so from infrastructure perspective its getting much better....if you run out you can maybe get a lift to a charging point and get a spare battery on loan
bogie said:
KAgantua said:
Surely the car companies need to look at swappable batteries at some point? I get they are an integral part of the car, and are 'nailed in' but it would icnrease flexibility so much...
Who warranties the batteries though...they degrade over time, so you replace yours at the charge point and end up with some worn out one that gives you 30% less range....dont think the battery swap is going to help with current tech.
However I read elsewhere that BP reckon they have as many charging points as they do petrol stations https://bpchargemaster.com/polar/
so from infrastructure perspective its getting much better....if you run out you can maybe get a lift to a charging point and get a spare battery on loan
Ed. said:
The batteries would have to be leased for battery swapping to work, when a battery falls below 75% its taken out of circulation for repair. Renault only recently have allowed customers to buy batteries instead of leasing, with the majority of cars being being financed for a few years before changing it shouldn't be such a hurdle but then tesla did end their battery swapping station pilot.
Battery leasing was massively unpopular.KAgantua said:
Surely the car companies need to look at swappable batteries at some point? I get they are an integral part of the car, and are 'nailed in' but it would icnrease flexibility so much...
There's a company working on releasing this system for the UK bike market. https://www.kymco.co.uk/kymco-ionexNo idea on timescales, guess they would just repair / replace the batteries from the charging stations when they reach a certain %
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