What am I 'allowed' to aspire to?
Discussion
This struck me the other day. I'm graduating from university in a month's time, thus bringing to an end nearly 18 years of continuous education, which I was to understand was to prepare me for a good job. Ever since I was 4 I've essentially promised myself lots of things.
But I had a conversation a couple of years ago when doing a summer job at Hyundai with a bloke who worked there, when he noticed me reading a copy of [i]Classic & Sports Car[/i]. He said 'you're full of idealism now, but when you reach the real world you'll realise that stuff like that's just a nice fantasy'. And he was just talking about MG Midgets FFS!
I've had similar spiel from a lot of people who've entered the world of work, about how life is just an absolute bitch, a constant hard slog and aspirations just make you jealous and resentful.
And of course I'm told that aspiration makes me greedy, that cars are wrong to want in any other application than droning from A to B, and that all the finer things in life are only enjoyed by a dying breed of 'disgusting' hedonists and are being stamped out by 'the liberal elite'.
But so far as I see it, in these people's lives, 'motoring' is tax and insurance, 'housing' is a mortgage, 'holidays' are something you take to stop yourself cracking up, 'money' is tax and so on.
Then it would seem that the people who decry those things only take any kind of comfort in relationships, family and friends, and that to enjoy anything else is 'sad' and 'childish'.
Now, forgive me for sounding naive, but I'm about to enter this so-called 'real world' and I'm completely unable to see any positives to life immediately after unless (a) you're a millionaire, (b) you're married with children or (c) you're an anticapitalist.
Can anyone (preferably recent graduates) enlighten me as to whether life after uni is any good, or is it true that, despite what we may dream of or have plans for, we all end up sliding down the exorbitent-rent-Focus-on-finance-9-to-5-drudgery-no-time-for-anything-but-meagre-existence route as so many people seem to keen to remind me.
I'm confused and it's getting me down!
But I had a conversation a couple of years ago when doing a summer job at Hyundai with a bloke who worked there, when he noticed me reading a copy of [i]Classic & Sports Car[/i]. He said 'you're full of idealism now, but when you reach the real world you'll realise that stuff like that's just a nice fantasy'. And he was just talking about MG Midgets FFS!
I've had similar spiel from a lot of people who've entered the world of work, about how life is just an absolute bitch, a constant hard slog and aspirations just make you jealous and resentful.
And of course I'm told that aspiration makes me greedy, that cars are wrong to want in any other application than droning from A to B, and that all the finer things in life are only enjoyed by a dying breed of 'disgusting' hedonists and are being stamped out by 'the liberal elite'.
But so far as I see it, in these people's lives, 'motoring' is tax and insurance, 'housing' is a mortgage, 'holidays' are something you take to stop yourself cracking up, 'money' is tax and so on.
Then it would seem that the people who decry those things only take any kind of comfort in relationships, family and friends, and that to enjoy anything else is 'sad' and 'childish'.
Now, forgive me for sounding naive, but I'm about to enter this so-called 'real world' and I'm completely unable to see any positives to life immediately after unless (a) you're a millionaire, (b) you're married with children or (c) you're an anticapitalist.
Can anyone (preferably recent graduates) enlighten me as to whether life after uni is any good, or is it true that, despite what we may dream of or have plans for, we all end up sliding down the exorbitent-rent-Focus-on-finance-9-to-5-drudgery-no-time-for-anything-but-meagre-existence route as so many people seem to keen to remind me.
I'm confused and it's getting me down!
Some would argue that today we have more choices than we ever had in the past. You want to live abroad, go do it. Want to live off the land, go do it. Want to work in the city and make a shed load, go do it.... possibly too much choice....!!!
But, the problem is what you cant do. It more of a what do you want to do. For some a house and a couple of kids if fine. To others, the thought of kids is repulsive.... but thats fine, because its personal choice. Society is more tollerant than before so you could even aspire to be able to wear a pink dress and be called Lucy.... it doesnt matter...
Oh, and about the drudgery... working from home and "work life balance" are very important to many employers these days. Therefore it shouldnt be an issue and certainly can be balanced out....
It aint that bad....!
But, the problem is what you cant do. It more of a what do you want to do. For some a house and a couple of kids if fine. To others, the thought of kids is repulsive.... but thats fine, because its personal choice. Society is more tollerant than before so you could even aspire to be able to wear a pink dress and be called Lucy.... it doesnt matter...
Oh, and about the drudgery... working from home and "work life balance" are very important to many employers these days. Therefore it shouldnt be an issue and certainly can be balanced out....
It aint that bad....!
Twincam16 said:
Then it would seem that the people who decry those things only take any kind of comfort in relationships, family and friends!
To be fair, these are more important than cars or other material gain.
Anyway, of course life after uni is good; indeed you don't seem to have enjoyed uni that much so it may be better for you. I suspect these people are just trying to warn you that life is expensive. After leaving uni (and completing my three months of early retirement) I was surprised just how much it costs to have a lifestyle.
Anyway, you're still a student - bunk off a lecture and get p!ssed! Don't fret 'til you truly have something to fret about
Things come in their own time. You need a 'professional' job, a house with a garage, a student loan paid off, etc. Then you will either spoil yourself rotten with cars and a playboy lifestyle or you'll have a wife who will talk you into a family and that will swallow up any spare income you had. In the latter you can still aspire to owning a nice motor but you'll end up doing it when life begins at 40.
Twincam16 said:Possibly for him, but not for you.
But I had a conversation a couple of years ago when doing a summer job at Hyundai with a bloke who worked there, when he noticed me reading a copy of Classic & Sports Car. He said 'you're full of idealism now, but when you reach the real world you'll realise that stuff like that's just a nice fantasy'. And he was just talking about MG Midgets FFS!
Depends on how you prioritise spending your cash. Aspiring to stuff is all well and good, and works nicely for most people as a motivator. However, you'll be surprised just how quickly money gets used up in the "real world" in terms of rent, food, beer (at non SU prices) and tax.
Not sure how much grads earn these days, but when I started out I was on £16k, and compared to what I lived on as a student I thought this was a fortune that would allow me to buy all sorts of toys. It wasn't.
Dan
lotuslad said:
Then it would seem that the people who decry those things only take any kind of comfort in relationships, family and friends!
To be fair, these are more important than cars or other material gain.
Anyway, of course life after uni is good; indeed you don't seem to have enjoyed uni that much so it may be better for you. I suspect these people are just trying to warn you that life is expensive. After leaving uni (and completing my three months of early retirement) I was surprised just how much it costs to have a lifestyle.
Anyway, you're still a student - bunk off a lecture and get p!ssed! Don't fret 'til you truly have something to fret about
Don't have any lectures this term mate! And I get pissed every other night!
Looking at 'prices' though, I do get the idea that a lot of people are too easily seduced by advertising, and are too lazy to look for bargains. All the seriously rich people I've met love a bargain.
I mean, put it this way:
To Focus Man, a Ferrari is an idle dream because on Top Gear, when they test them, they cost £100k, and obviously anything just out of warranty is immediately, 'old', unreliable and ready for the scrap heap/bricks on a council estate.
To me, a new Focus is a rip off. The car is worth £2k at best, Ferraris start at £8k for a Mondial, a car is as reliable as you're prepared to spend otherwise-depreciation-lost-money on it, and a warranty isn't worth having unless you know your car's going to break down, and a new Focus isn't.
Also, it struck me that you can live the high life on the cheap. Have you seen how cheap yachts are on eBay? Have you seen what Changing Rooms can do with £500 when they're sensible? Have you seen what you can get from Ikea if you've got a sense of co-ordination and taste? Have you seen where you can go on holiday if you spend that money every two years instead of every year?
I guess I'm just a creative person who is sick of the lack of creativity I see around me. I hope creativity attracts the like-minded and adventurous.
And of course Lotuslad, my family and friends are more important to me than all of this stuff, but don't you ever notice that there are a lot of people too ready to lecture you as to how wrong you are if you derive any degree of pleasure from anything else?
Sam,
My response to what these people say, (for what it's worth): "B*LL*CKS!"
Don't let the b*stards get you down. Granted the working world isn't all roses, but if you work hard, make sure you play hard. Whether it's beering it every weekend, or saving for 5 years to buy your dream car.
Some people don't want to push themselves, and for them, that's fine. Just don't let them hold you back.
When I started working at 17, I was paid £7,300 per year and it was a start. I've moved on a bit in the 9 years since then, but it's been a character building experience.
I've loads of regrets about the things that I've done, but not one "I wish I did..."
Life's what you make it.
Tuan
My response to what these people say, (for what it's worth): "B*LL*CKS!"
Don't let the b*stards get you down. Granted the working world isn't all roses, but if you work hard, make sure you play hard. Whether it's beering it every weekend, or saving for 5 years to buy your dream car.
Some people don't want to push themselves, and for them, that's fine. Just don't let them hold you back.
When I started working at 17, I was paid £7,300 per year and it was a start. I've moved on a bit in the 9 years since then, but it's been a character building experience.
I've loads of regrets about the things that I've done, but not one "I wish I did..."
Life's what you make it.
Tuan
Ah, but dont forget quality....
God, this makes me sound old (which I am not), but when you spend money on something and find that you have to spend money on it again later, you learn the reality of quality the hard way.....
Little things like dishwashers and washing machines are small beer in the great scheme of things, but you learn quickly what is "good" and what is not. A Mondial for 8k, yes, but good money after bad I am afraid. That said, everything in life is a compromise.
If you are prepared to give something up, there is no reason why aspiring to what every you want is not a problem. Some forego kids, others foreign holidays and others fancy cars.... image to many is everything, reality often is very different. I now have a HSBC Permier bank account. This is the one for private clients with lots of cash..... or if you have a mortgage for over 75k, which lets face it is not that hard. When I hand over the card people think I am loaded, which I am not.... but its all in the perception. All might not be what you think....
Life can be good, but its what you make it. The local chap who delivers skips is one of the happiest chaps I know. Gets paid naff all, but has a loverly house in the country and does what he wants. Doesnt need money, just time.. and trust me, money cant buy time in the long run.
God, this makes me sound old (which I am not), but when you spend money on something and find that you have to spend money on it again later, you learn the reality of quality the hard way.....
Little things like dishwashers and washing machines are small beer in the great scheme of things, but you learn quickly what is "good" and what is not. A Mondial for 8k, yes, but good money after bad I am afraid. That said, everything in life is a compromise.
If you are prepared to give something up, there is no reason why aspiring to what every you want is not a problem. Some forego kids, others foreign holidays and others fancy cars.... image to many is everything, reality often is very different. I now have a HSBC Permier bank account. This is the one for private clients with lots of cash..... or if you have a mortgage for over 75k, which lets face it is not that hard. When I hand over the card people think I am loaded, which I am not.... but its all in the perception. All might not be what you think....
Life can be good, but its what you make it. The local chap who delivers skips is one of the happiest chaps I know. Gets paid naff all, but has a loverly house in the country and does what he wants. Doesnt need money, just time.. and trust me, money cant buy time in the long run.
Concerning the thoughts and opinions of others: just do what I do and say 
'em! It's your life, so don't let other's tell you how to live it, especially bitter failures who didn't have the balls to go for what they really wanted.
As for employment, accept the fact that the world is not the mollusc of your choice the moment you graduate. Tutors like to give the impression that employers will be falling over each other to give you sacks full of cash to come and work for them. In most cases it ain't gonna happen (and if it was that good on the outside, why are they teaching?
). I can only give you my personal perspective as a director of a small company, but real world experience means a lot more than academic training. That's not to say it's not valuable, but knowing how to apply that knowledge under real world conditions is what counts.
I left university right at the start of the 90's recession and had a very tough time of it and came very close to becoming homeless! Things are better now, but it didn't come easy
Remember, people have different priorities in life, but some have an inexplicable mental block and tend view others' aspirations as additions to their own choices. For example, we've had some very nice cars and have had some jealous comments from colleagues & neighbours along the lines of 'it must be nice to be rich' etc. Well, we're not - we've made sacrifices in other areas of our lives to get these cars - very few holidays, not out down the pub every other night etc. The jealous types assume you have/do everything they have, plus all the stuff they don't! Sometimes we set them straight, other times it's more fun to just say: 'Yes, it is nice being rich.'
'em! It's your life, so don't let other's tell you how to live it, especially bitter failures who didn't have the balls to go for what they really wanted. As for employment, accept the fact that the world is not the mollusc of your choice the moment you graduate. Tutors like to give the impression that employers will be falling over each other to give you sacks full of cash to come and work for them. In most cases it ain't gonna happen (and if it was that good on the outside, why are they teaching?
). I can only give you my personal perspective as a director of a small company, but real world experience means a lot more than academic training. That's not to say it's not valuable, but knowing how to apply that knowledge under real world conditions is what counts. I left university right at the start of the 90's recession and had a very tough time of it and came very close to becoming homeless! Things are better now, but it didn't come easy
Remember, people have different priorities in life, but some have an inexplicable mental block and tend view others' aspirations as additions to their own choices. For example, we've had some very nice cars and have had some jealous comments from colleagues & neighbours along the lines of 'it must be nice to be rich' etc. Well, we're not - we've made sacrifices in other areas of our lives to get these cars - very few holidays, not out down the pub every other night etc. The jealous types assume you have/do everything they have, plus all the stuff they don't! Sometimes we set them straight, other times it's more fun to just say: 'Yes, it is nice being rich.'
I'm beginning to suspect that an attachment free mentality is the most healtyh way to live. By attachment I don't mean close relationships but attachment to material things.
This is not to say 'don't have and posessions' but more to avoid being possessed by the desire for things. Attachment to things can lead to fear. Fear will rob you of your health and happiness, it will destroy any chance you have of living a balanced life.
Treat people well and treat yourself well (don't get hung up over targets and achievements) and pretty much everything else will work out. As the rest of the world seems to want to put you under pressure (from famile to advertising) there's no need to add any yourself!
this moment of clarity was brought to you by MacDonalds and Coca Cola.
This is not to say 'don't have and posessions' but more to avoid being possessed by the desire for things. Attachment to things can lead to fear. Fear will rob you of your health and happiness, it will destroy any chance you have of living a balanced life.
Treat people well and treat yourself well (don't get hung up over targets and achievements) and pretty much everything else will work out. As the rest of the world seems to want to put you under pressure (from famile to advertising) there's no need to add any yourself!
this moment of clarity was brought to you by MacDonalds and Coca Cola.
TwinCam - ignore these losers who would pollute your young mind with such shite. Having a taste for high performance cars might put a load on your income that others might find unacceptable, but that's a personal thing - I consider fags and beer an equally acceptable waste of dosh but lots of people see those as staples.
The best bit of advice I can give you is to believe in yourself, go your own way, and stick two fingers up at anyone who tries to stop you.
The best bit of advice I can give you is to believe in yourself, go your own way, and stick two fingers up at anyone who tries to stop you.
My Dad (despite my mothers protests) has always told me that you need to have dreams and things to aim towards, or what's the point in anything. I very much agree with him.
We were NEVER well off when I was growing up, but my dad was a wonderful networker and had a few well connected friends. Despite him being a lowly car parts stock keeper, we had holidays on a boat every year (that belonged to one of his friends), he had use of a Kawasaki 1100 whenever he wanted, and I remember him picking me up from my Saturday job when I was 16 in a bronze XJS.
Dad didn't have the money to pay for those type of luxuries, but we certainly didn't miss out on what some would reard as a luxury life style because my dads friends, employers and colleagues trusted him.
Yes, life is sometimes an uphill struggle. And it does sometimes feel like I'm working to pay the tax man, or the mortgage, or for my daughters social life/school fund. I'll never be able to afford to buy my Lamborghini Miura, but maybe one day a nice Pistonheader will offer to take me out in his. That would make my day as much as if he gave me the keys and let me drive it.
You get out of life what you appreciate from it. If all you see is negative and what you HAVEN'T got (like your friend my Hyundai), then you'll never achieve your dreams and aspirations, because if you ever do get there, there'll still be something wrong with the result.
We were NEVER well off when I was growing up, but my dad was a wonderful networker and had a few well connected friends. Despite him being a lowly car parts stock keeper, we had holidays on a boat every year (that belonged to one of his friends), he had use of a Kawasaki 1100 whenever he wanted, and I remember him picking me up from my Saturday job when I was 16 in a bronze XJS.
Dad didn't have the money to pay for those type of luxuries, but we certainly didn't miss out on what some would reard as a luxury life style because my dads friends, employers and colleagues trusted him.
Yes, life is sometimes an uphill struggle. And it does sometimes feel like I'm working to pay the tax man, or the mortgage, or for my daughters social life/school fund. I'll never be able to afford to buy my Lamborghini Miura, but maybe one day a nice Pistonheader will offer to take me out in his. That would make my day as much as if he gave me the keys and let me drive it.
You get out of life what you appreciate from it. If all you see is negative and what you HAVEN'T got (like your friend my Hyundai), then you'll never achieve your dreams and aspirations, because if you ever do get there, there'll still be something wrong with the result.
Twincam16 said:You try building one for less.
To me, a new Focus is a rip off.
Twincam16 said:
...there are a lot of people too ready to lecture you as to how wrong you are if you derive any degree of pleasure from anything else?
These people are small minded. Ignore them.
They probably holiday at the same place each year, too scared to try anything new.
When I left uni in '99 I am sure that what I experienced for the next 2 years was something akin to PTSD!
Then I meet a wonderful woman, qualified and moved out of the Midlands to Suffolk. I still had no spare cash and the Caterham I always promised was a long way of but it was a conscious life choice as to where my money was going.
Now I'm 29 and single. Once we have sold our house I will have more disposable income than ever before in my life and am looking forward to it.
As all have said don't let those that have failed to fulfil their dreams grind you down. It is true that unless you have pops of dosh you can't have the sportscar, 2 foreign hols a year, big house, etc, etc as soon as you leave uni. You have to work at and collect these trinkets as you go.
Have fun!
Then I meet a wonderful woman, qualified and moved out of the Midlands to Suffolk. I still had no spare cash and the Caterham I always promised was a long way of but it was a conscious life choice as to where my money was going.
Now I'm 29 and single. Once we have sold our house I will have more disposable income than ever before in my life and am looking forward to it.
As all have said don't let those that have failed to fulfil their dreams grind you down. It is true that unless you have pops of dosh you can't have the sportscar, 2 foreign hols a year, big house, etc, etc as soon as you leave uni. You have to work at and collect these trinkets as you go.
Have fun!
I'm now almost 6 years our of education - albeit I spent the first three years of work getting professional qualifications.
There is an element of drudergy to it all -
- All work has some element of drudgery - I've never met anybody who says otherwise; and
- As your earnings increase so do your aspirations, hence the feeling that it is a never ending treadmill.
However that having been said, my standard of living is much higher now than it was 6 years ago; my salary has risen by somwhere between 20 and 50% per annum (41% on average).
I work extremely hard - never less than 65 hours a week, but I am rewarded for this. Moreover I pay my taxes (and BOY does that hurt), help run a local charity, support a local action group and chair the local branch of a political party (guess which one...), so I feel I "make my contribution to society".
[rant mode]
AND THAT IS WHY I GET REALLY REALLY HACKED OFF WHEN LEFT WING POLITICIANS, CIVIL SERVANTS AND OTHER ASSORTED WHINGERS TELL ME I AM NOT ALLOWED TO OWN WHATEVER DD CAR I WANT, WORK THE HOURS I WANT AND LIVE THE LIFE I WANT.
[/rant mode]
Have a dream, work towards it, and don't let anybody get you down.
There is an element of drudergy to it all -
- All work has some element of drudgery - I've never met anybody who says otherwise; and
- As your earnings increase so do your aspirations, hence the feeling that it is a never ending treadmill.
However that having been said, my standard of living is much higher now than it was 6 years ago; my salary has risen by somwhere between 20 and 50% per annum (41% on average).
I work extremely hard - never less than 65 hours a week, but I am rewarded for this. Moreover I pay my taxes (and BOY does that hurt), help run a local charity, support a local action group and chair the local branch of a political party (guess which one...), so I feel I "make my contribution to society".
[rant mode]
AND THAT IS WHY I GET REALLY REALLY HACKED OFF WHEN LEFT WING POLITICIANS, CIVIL SERVANTS AND OTHER ASSORTED WHINGERS TELL ME I AM NOT ALLOWED TO OWN WHATEVER D
D CAR I WANT, WORK THE HOURS I WANT AND LIVE THE LIFE I WANT. [/rant mode]
Have a dream, work towards it, and don't let anybody get you down.
Gassing Station | The Pie & Piston Archive | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff