Bereavement time off
Discussion
The person who organises our holiday/leave at work has recently moved it from a "write it on the wall calendar" to an app - we're a small firm so its always been pretty casual.
During the transition the day i took off in January to attend my father's funeral has been deducted from my holiday entitlement. There's nothing in my contract of employment (such as it is) about compassionate leave entitlement or policy, but is there any sort of legal minimum entitlement or is any time off counted being as holiday usual?
During the transition the day i took off in January to attend my father's funeral has been deducted from my holiday entitlement. There's nothing in my contract of employment (such as it is) about compassionate leave entitlement or policy, but is there any sort of legal minimum entitlement or is any time off counted being as holiday usual?
If you have it in your contract or not what kind of company makes you take that time off out of your holiday?
We don't have anything specific written down, I believe it is at the discretion of management, when my dad died I had just over a week off, as it was over Christmas and New Year, it ended up being 3 (I think) actual days plus I had the day of his funeral off too, none of this was taken from my holiday entitlement and it was all paid.
We don't have anything specific written down, I believe it is at the discretion of management, when my dad died I had just over a week off, as it was over Christmas and New Year, it ended up being 3 (I think) actual days plus I had the day of his funeral off too, none of this was taken from my holiday entitlement and it was all paid.
Edited by HTP99 on Friday 23 August 16:21
My place is pretty good, wife in hospital, grandfathers funeral, house underwater and in-laws house on fire has all been "Take as much as you need, let us know when you are back online" has meant I haven't ever felt like taking the piss and was extremely helpful to say the least. I would be a bit narked in your situation, could be a simple oversight though, have you asked?
boyse7en said:
The person who organises our holiday/leave at work has recently moved it from a "write it on the wall calendar" to an app - we're a small firm so its always been pretty casual.
During the transition the day i took off in January to attend my father's funeral has been deducted from my holiday entitlement. There's nothing in my contract of employment (such as it is) about compassionate leave entitlement or policy, but is there any sort of legal minimum entitlement or is any time off counted being as holiday usual?
Have you asked them about it? Before going to someone more senior, it might just be an oversight/they forgot the reason.During the transition the day i took off in January to attend my father's funeral has been deducted from my holiday entitlement. There's nothing in my contract of employment (such as it is) about compassionate leave entitlement or policy, but is there any sort of legal minimum entitlement or is any time off counted being as holiday usual?
geeks said:
My place is pretty good, wife in hospital, grandfathers funeral, house underwater and in-laws house on fire has all been "Take as much as you need, let us know when you are back online" has meant I haven't ever felt like taking the piss and was extremely helpful to say the least. I would be a bit narked in your situation, could be a simple oversight though, have you asked?
Just to play Devil's advocate - what would people consider "fair and reasonable" and what would be "well come on, that's taking the mick"? And should the same rules apply if the Employer is a small firm of 2/3 employees or a multi-national employing tens of thousands?IMHO the "take as much time off as you want" doesn't work for several reasons. If you are giving it to one person then (unless it's your personal company) as a Manager, you need to give to to everybody, or be prepared to justify why person X gets favourable treatment and the others don't.
This stuff really makes me appreciate where I work. My mum was late stage with cancer and was admitted to hospital. I called my boss to say I need a bit of time to go and see her during the day and he just said there is no work for me just spend time with her. Without any handover at all I was give time off, full pay and no effect to my leave. I was with her every day and most nights for her final 4 weeks and the 2 weeks after to sort and attend her funeral.
It's a shame more places aren't like this but I guess some would just take the piss with it.
It's a shame more places aren't like this but I guess some would just take the piss with it.
a few days for immediate family isn’t unreasonable. You may find a quiet word with your manager may result in an informal ‘do what you need, dont shout it about though’
If on the other hand you never muck in, roll in late, leave on the dot and have a tendency to take days off sick on fridays and monday will result in a more formal response of ‘sorry, not in policy’
karma.
If on the other hand you never muck in, roll in late, leave on the dot and have a tendency to take days off sick on fridays and monday will result in a more formal response of ‘sorry, not in policy’
karma.
A small company cannot afford to 'take as much time as you want'.
The worker is missing, they are getting paid, the work they do has to be covered by someone who is getting overtime (most likely) both workers attract employers NI and PAYE contributions, pension contributions, etc.
It's a burden that a lot of small businesses struggle with.
However, I would give a week plus the funeral for a close relative. I'd struggle to afford any more.
The worker is missing, they are getting paid, the work they do has to be covered by someone who is getting overtime (most likely) both workers attract employers NI and PAYE contributions, pension contributions, etc.
It's a burden that a lot of small businesses struggle with.
However, I would give a week plus the funeral for a close relative. I'd struggle to afford any more.
johnwilliams77 said:
Yes
In good companies if you can be trusted the above mostly will happen
How do good companies decide who can be trusted and who can’t? There are also a raft of other judgements that need to be made (eg how closely related the person was). Inflexible as it may seem, that’s why a written policy is better than a “take whatever time you need”.In good companies if you can be trusted the above mostly will happen
sjj84 said:
The policy where I work is 3 days for a spouse, parent or child and that is to include the funeral.
Where I work I’d be lucky to even get that! They don’t give us anything more than they legally have to. In 4 years working here I have never been off sick, no time off for doctors dentists etc, until last year I needed a couple hours off to go for hospital appointment for suspect skin cancer and still wouldn’t pay me. Contract states paid time off at discretion, when I asked about it they just said we don’t pay anyone, except office staff not the engineers! Some discretion that, which is just a straight no. I know I could leave etc but in my kind of work not many company’s give us any benefits.
The Mad Monk said:
essayer said:
sjj84 said:
The policy where I work is 3 days for a spouse, parent or child and that is to include the funeral.
That’s pretty awful.A stone-hearted robot would say to use your holiday allowance. Even if you would make someone do that, what if it has all been used? You’re then in a position, hypothetically, that your wife or child has died and you have no money coming in to pay bills.
OP, I hope this is someone just being over-efficient. Have a quiet word in person with your manager and ask if it’s right.
Muzzer79 said:
If your wife or child died suddenly and tragically today, would you be in a position to go back to work on Thursday? I know I wouldn’t.......
A stone-hearted robot would say to use your holiday allowance. Even if you would make someone do that, what if it has all been used? You’re then in a position, hypothetically, that your wife or child has died and you have no money coming in to pay bills.
OP, I hope this is someone just being over-efficient. Have a quiet word in person with your manager and ask if it’s right.
What would that person do if they were self -employed? The thing that we’re all tiptoeing around isn’t really the amount of bereavement leave that a person should be allowed to take, it’s the amount of paid[ bereavement leave. And arguably large companies have sufficient resources to be able to cope with this, but for smaller companies or owner-managed firms operating on thin margins, they may not actually be able to afford the cost of paying somebody for a “take as long as you like” period of time.A stone-hearted robot would say to use your holiday allowance. Even if you would make someone do that, what if it has all been used? You’re then in a position, hypothetically, that your wife or child has died and you have no money coming in to pay bills.
OP, I hope this is someone just being over-efficient. Have a quiet word in person with your manager and ask if it’s right.
Countdown said:
Just to play Devil's advocate - what would people consider "fair and reasonable" and what would be "well come on, that's taking the mick"? And should the same rules apply if the Employer is a small firm of 2/3 employees or a multi-national employing tens of thousands?
IMHO the "take as much time off as you want" doesn't work for several reasons. If you are giving it to one person then (unless it's your personal company) as a Manager, you need to give to to everybody, or be prepared to justify why person X gets favourable treatment and the others don't.
One person in my team took three weeks for an auntie. I thought that was a bit excessive.IMHO the "take as much time off as you want" doesn't work for several reasons. If you are giving it to one person then (unless it's your personal company) as a Manager, you need to give to to everybody, or be prepared to justify why person X gets favourable treatment and the others don't.
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