Odd 'accident' - parked scooter fell onto parked car

[TVR Sagaris]

This is a bit of a weird one.

I parked my Vespa on its stand next to a parked Ford Focus. It was there for a few hours while I was in a cafe. Then a member of staff asked me if I had a Vespa outside and said it had fallen into his boss's car.

Go outside to find the scooter is indeed tipped over, now leaning on the back of the parked Ford Focus. It's no longer on its stand. As I'm putting it back on the stand, the Focus owner appears - the boss of the cafe - and points out that the end of his numberplate has snapped off and he says there is a fresh scratch on the bumper.

Next to my scooter are several scooters that were not there when I first parked. The one closest to my scooter is really close - actually touching it once I put mine on its stand. I say that the guy who parked that scooter must have knocked mine over. The boss says that my scooter was tipped over before the other scooter arrived.

Strangely, the scooter parked next to mine is on a foreign plate I don't recognise. There's another scooter of the same type parked next to that one, with the same sort of plate.

I say that someone/something must have knocked my scooter over.

The boss is ready to make an insurance claim and then says he in fact runs a 'claims company'. He later gave me his business card with the details of this company.

I've got his details (hence business card) and have given him mine, but have left it at the moment saying I would rather not go through insurance, need to work out what the deal is, and that I will speak to him tomorrow.

What's the deal here? I feel like there's some element of a scam here, but not sure if I have any options either way.

[ging84]

Was his car parked there when you got there?

[Riley Blue]

Without a witness you can't be sure what happened but your scooter was in contact with the car so I'd cough up and move on.

Someone scamming you for the cost of a number plate and a scratch unlikely, wouldn't you say?

[Retroman]

You are only obligated to pay for the damage you done if you were negligent in some way.
Parking a bike and putting it on the stand wouldn't be determined as negligent, unless it wasn't parked properly (on a hill / stand not fully out)

[BaugetteauFromage]

You are unlikely to be liable as you do not seem to have been negligent. Just because your scooter was the mechanism for the damage doesn’t make you liable. If you parked properly then someone else knocked your scooter over, it is they that are liable, not you.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

As said by others, no liability, no claim. Really you should tell your insurers, explain the situation, and just tell the Focus owner to liaise with your insurers as you don't want to get involved. Let them refute the claim on your behalf.

Or you could defend it yourself, just tell him you're denying liability due to lack of negligence, and tell him if he wants to sue you, he's welcome. Then if he does, go to court and defend yourself. If you lose, you'll have to pay. But I doubt you will. He has to prove your negligence. You don't have to prove your lack of negligence.

[meatballs]

Is there CCTV covering the area?

[kowalski655]

Runs a claims company? Expect 6 weeks car hire while the car damage is repaired and a whiplash claim!

[TVR Sagaris]

Riley Blue said:

Someone scamming you for the cost of a number plate and a scratch unlikely, wouldn't you say?

It does seem a bit unlikely, but the fact that he runs a 'claims company', told me he had 'contacted his solicitor' and was immediately telling me it would be £120 per panel (he says two panels scratched) plus £20 for the number plate (so £260 total) feels a bit weird.

Not sure about CCTV - there may be, but it was on a small street of independent shops, so not sure there'll be much chance of getting access to something useful.

Is there some written guidance somewhere about the rules on negligence and insurance claims in these sorts of instances?

Thanks for the replies.

[Trevor555]

TVR Sagaris said:

I parked my Vespa on its stand next to a parked Ford Focus. It was there for a few hours while I was in a cafe. Then a member of staff asked me if I had a Vespa outside and said it had fallen into his boss's car.

Go outside to find the scooter is indeed tipped over, now leaning on the back of the parked Ford Focus. It's no longer on its stand. As I'm putting it back on the stand, the Focus owner appears - the boss of the cafe - and points out that the end of his numberplate has snapped off and he says there is a fresh scratch on the bumper.

Any chance the Focus driver knocked your bike over, then picked it up and lent it against his car to make it look like your bike had fallen?

Any chance of CCTV in the area?

Any damage on the other side of your bike?

[Tony427]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

As said by others, no liability, no claim. Really you should tell your insurers, explain the situation, and just tell the Focus owner to liaise with your insurers as you don't want to get involved. Let them refute the claim on your behalf.

Or you could defend it yourself, just tell him you're denying liability due to lack of negligence, and tell him if he wants to sue you, he's welcome. Then if he does, go to court and defend yourself. If you lose, you'll have to pay. But I doubt you will. He has to prove your negligence. You don't have to prove your lack of negligence.

This. Highly suspicious that the cafe owner has his own claims company. What are the odds of that?

Report to insurance and let them deal. There may be some other claims underway from the same source. Guy may also run a car hire company.

[poo at Paul's]

Is it possible that the focus owner knocked your scooter over?
A lot of scooter stands have an appendage that sticks out one side, for your foot to deploy it, and if knocked side on from the other side, they can go over, get held so it doesn't topple up on the extra appendage, then as the force is removed, (eg car draws forward, the bike topples back to the side of the stand without the appendage and will go over! So if the orientation of the bike was this way, it is possible the car revered into it, stuck it up over at and angle, drew off the scooter, and the scooter fell over against it.

As for the claims company, sounds like BS, ask him for details do a CH search to see if he has an interest. Probably that a mate works for one , or his mummy or something.

Basically, if your bike was parked correctly, and stable, and something happened to it that is nowt to do with you, and someone else's car is damaged, it is unlikey they can claim off your scooter insurance. Not your fault, not their fault maybe, but if you have not been negligent, they cannot claim.

[Retroman]

poo at Paul's said:

Basically, if your bike was parked correctly, and stable, and something happened to it that is nowt to do with you, and someone else's car is damaged, it is unlikey they can claim off your scooter insurance. Not your fault, not their fault maybe, but if you have not been negligent, they cannot claim.

Exactly this.

Inform your insurance company as you have been involved in an accident, but maintain the bike was secure and parked correctly when you left it and you have not been negligent in any way.
Suggest to them the car driver may have bumped into it and knocked it over.
Advise them you are reporting it to them for logging purposes but you do not wish to seek to claim for any damages to your bike.

[journeymanpro]

I'm sure his focus actually hit your scooter and knocked it over.

[Riley Blue]

journeymanpro said:

I'm sure his focus actually hit your scooter and knocked it over.

Title says it 'fell onto parked car' and OP wrote 'leaning on the back of the parked Ford Focus'. If the car had knocked it over those are surprising outcomes.

[Retroman]

Riley Blue said:

Title says it 'fell onto parked car' and OP wrote 'leaning on the back of the parked Ford Focus'. If the car had knocked it over those are surprising outcomes.

Yes, the claim from the focus driver is it fell onto his parked car but there appears to be no evidence to back this up.

I think this reply below explains best to what has likely happened.
The car might have bumped it enough to take the weight off the stand, causing the stand to retract slightly then when the focus went forward again that would cause the bike to fall over and learn against the back of it.

poo at Paul's said:

Is it possible that the focus owner knocked your scooter over?
A lot of scooter stands have an appendage that sticks out one side, for your foot to deploy it, and if knocked side on from the other side, they can go over, get held so it doesn't topple up on the extra appendage, then as the force is removed, (eg car draws forward, the bike topples back to the side of the stand without the appendage and will go over! So if the orientation of the bike was this way, it is possible the car revered into it, stuck it up over at and angle, drew off the scooter, and the scooter fell over against it.

[ging84]

Riley Blue said:

journeymanpro said:

I'm sure his focus actually hit your scooter and knocked it over.

Title says it 'fell onto parked car' and OP wrote 'leaning on the back of the parked Ford Focus'. If the car had knocked it over those are surprising outcomes.

Yes but now the OP can say he was told by someone they were sure that the focus hit his scooter and knocked it over. He doesn't have to mention that they were an anonymous person on an internet forum and extremely unlikely to have been an eye witness.

[journeymanpro]

I think some miss the point. Play him at his own game.

[meatballs]

journeymanpro said:

I think some miss the point. Play him at his own game.

I think some people have a strong imagination. I'd be fairly miffed if I found a scooter had fallen on my car.

[Retroman]

meatballs said:

I think some people have a strong imagination. I'd be fairly miffed if I found a scooter had fallen on my car.

You'd be even more miffed if someone was trying to claim off your insurance because your Scooter was somehow in contact with their car, through no fault of your own.