If we remain what's the point in the HoC/HoL?
Discussion
just out of curiosity if after 3 years of squabbling, prevaricating, not being able to make a decision and generally acting like kids in a kindergarten and given the EU's stated aim of ever closer political union what would be the point of our 2 houses?
They've proved themselves to be duplicitous, mendacious and generally not up to the task of running a whelk stall - why have another layer of self-serving sponges who patently aren't needed.
Let's be the first to fully sign up to the great project....
They've proved themselves to be duplicitous, mendacious and generally not up to the task of running a whelk stall - why have another layer of self-serving sponges who patently aren't needed.
Let's be the first to fully sign up to the great project....
The point is we can sack them for better or worse and hold them accountable in that respect.
The big project...what happens when that is just as useless (that's not to say that it isn't already, but a lot more dangerous), a lot more powerful and more repressive, higher taxation, less efficiency the further centralised it becomes, and even more corrupt than it is already, no thanks and that's before it gets hijacked totally by the left.
The big project...what happens when that is just as useless (that's not to say that it isn't already, but a lot more dangerous), a lot more powerful and more repressive, higher taxation, less efficiency the further centralised it becomes, and even more corrupt than it is already, no thanks and that's before it gets hijacked totally by the left.
Not an irrelevant question. As the EU want to grow its control and reach, what the UK can do even from deep within - assuming a flip scenario where remainers manage to void the referendum - will be increasingly limited.
Even selecting an Eurosceptic government in years to come, their ability to do anything meaningful outside the EU legal framework will reduce over time. For some this is a good thing - Ken Clarke in primis and the majority of Italians too - but for others this means releasing control, as vetoes are going to be removed from the EU legislation.
At that point, how many layers of government do you need? councils, regions, state government and then the EU government? Might as well get rid of 80% of it within the UK as they will have zero value to add and only generate cost.
Edited to add: Imagine the scenario we have now where UK regions outside the South East moan that all that matters in the UK is London and scale it up to EU level.
Even selecting an Eurosceptic government in years to come, their ability to do anything meaningful outside the EU legal framework will reduce over time. For some this is a good thing - Ken Clarke in primis and the majority of Italians too - but for others this means releasing control, as vetoes are going to be removed from the EU legislation.
At that point, how many layers of government do you need? councils, regions, state government and then the EU government? Might as well get rid of 80% of it within the UK as they will have zero value to add and only generate cost.
Edited to add: Imagine the scenario we have now where UK regions outside the South East moan that all that matters in the UK is London and scale it up to EU level.
Edited by stuckmojo on Monday 9th September 14:57
Whether we stay or go there not much point in the current HOC/HOL. (Or the other shams in Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast).
Without exception they’re a bunch of incompetents, shysters or down right crooks.
Sack them all and start again with 200 genuine politicians for the whole of the UK.
Without exception they’re a bunch of incompetents, shysters or down right crooks.
Sack them all and start again with 200 genuine politicians for the whole of the UK.
One area I definitely think there's room for reform is in MPs changing parties/allegiances. It shouldn't be possible to simply change party and carry on, as that flies in the face of the public's vote being substantially based on the party manifestos. If they want to change party (or their party throws them out for whatever reason / withdraws the whip), this absolutely should trigger a by-election in their seat (and it should be a fairly rapid one).
It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
irocfan said:
just out of curiosity if after 3 years of squabbling, prevaricating, not being able to make a decision and generally acting like kids in a kindergarten and given the EU's stated aim of ever closer political union what would be the point of our 2 houses?
They've proved themselves to be duplicitous, mendacious and generally not up to the task of running a whelk stall - why have another layer of self-serving sponges who patently aren't needed.
Let's be the first to fully sign up to the great project....
Why are people being so hysterical about this? We have a parliamentary democracy where your elected MP is a representative not a delegate. You get to vote for who you want, their role is the. To do what they believe is right for the country, not because you personally, or just over every other person wants something They've proved themselves to be duplicitous, mendacious and generally not up to the task of running a whelk stall - why have another layer of self-serving sponges who patently aren't needed.
Let's be the first to fully sign up to the great project....
You wanted parliamentary sovereignty, you wanted to take back control (not that we’d ever given either of those up) well, this is both of those in action.
kev1974 said:
One area I definitely think there's room for reform is in MPs changing parties/allegiances. It shouldn't be possible to simply change party and carry on, as that flies in the face of the public's vote being substantially based on the party manifestos. If they want to change party (or their party throws them out for whatever reason / withdraws the whip), this absolutely should trigger a by-election in their seat (and it should be a fairly rapid one).
It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
I can’t see that working, as it’s a charter for a dictatorship. Simply get voted in, sack anyone who disagrees with you and replace them with a sycophant. It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
Lindun said:
kev1974 said:
One area I definitely think there's room for reform is in MPs changing parties/allegiances. It shouldn't be possible to simply change party and carry on, as that flies in the face of the public's vote being substantially based on the party manifestos. If they want to change party (or their party throws them out for whatever reason / withdraws the whip), this absolutely should trigger a by-election in their seat (and it should be a fairly rapid one).
It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
I can’t see that working, as it’s a charter for a dictatorship. Simply get voted in, sack anyone who disagrees with you and replace them with a sycophant. It's ridiculous that so many of our elected MPs today are no longer standing for the parties they were elected for.
I was thinking the same recently... given that for at least the last 18 months probably 80%+ off all prime debating time in parliament has been taken up with brexit and nothing else, yet the country has kept running and hasn't collapsed into anarchy and chaos.
It shows how pointless, irrelevant and unnecessary the roles and functions of these parliamentarians actually are when it comes to all other non-brexit issues.
It shows how pointless, irrelevant and unnecessary the roles and functions of these parliamentarians actually are when it comes to all other non-brexit issues.
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