3d printers... talk to me
Discussion
I'm looking at getting a 3d printer for general use. I was thinking of getting a 'decent' one 2nd hand. What do people recommend? I don't want to have to upgrade in the near future.
Currently, there's a used Zortrax M200 going for about a grand on ebay, but Amazon is listing them for £900ish new. I read that they're good for ABS only. Thoughts?
Currently, there's a used Zortrax M200 going for about a grand on ebay, but Amazon is listing them for £900ish new. I read that they're good for ABS only. Thoughts?
Depends on the budget, I have 2
Creality Ender3d pro
Arguably one of the best budget printers - around £180-230 new.
Bowden tube, so although it will print tpu (the flexible stuff) success rate may vary.
Bowden tube means the filament is pushed alone a PTFE tube to get to the extruder. A lot of budget ones have poor support, Creality, isnt too bad.
Prusa mk3s
Arguably the best printer available for the money - £700 in kit form
(You can get better but you are well into 4 figures.) Way more advanced, self leveling, filament sensor, crash sensor - no Bowden tube (filiment goes direct into extruder) so easily prints tpu, petg, abs, pls ( and I suspect others but those are the main ones).
Software wise, Fusion360 for drawing (free for hobby / school use) and is suggest to budget for Simplify3D slicer (about £130 ) - used to convert objects into instructions the printer can understand, controls temp, speed etc. Free alternatives are available but this is surposidly the best. Prusa is a Polish company , support is beyond outstanding.
Martin
Creality Ender3d pro
Arguably one of the best budget printers - around £180-230 new.
Bowden tube, so although it will print tpu (the flexible stuff) success rate may vary.
Bowden tube means the filament is pushed alone a PTFE tube to get to the extruder. A lot of budget ones have poor support, Creality, isnt too bad.
Prusa mk3s
Arguably the best printer available for the money - £700 in kit form
(You can get better but you are well into 4 figures.) Way more advanced, self leveling, filament sensor, crash sensor - no Bowden tube (filiment goes direct into extruder) so easily prints tpu, petg, abs, pls ( and I suspect others but those are the main ones).
Software wise, Fusion360 for drawing (free for hobby / school use) and is suggest to budget for Simplify3D slicer (about £130 ) - used to convert objects into instructions the printer can understand, controls temp, speed etc. Free alternatives are available but this is surposidly the best. Prusa is a Polish company , support is beyond outstanding.
Martin
I own a Prusa I3 Mk3 and have a Zortrax M200 loaner. My experience:
Zortrax:
VERY good at printing styrenic materials - ABS, Z-Ultrat (ABS + small amount of PC) and ASA. However, you will need the door kit and something to close the lid off, such as the HEPA cover, to get properly split-free large prints and warp-free,large thin-wall prints. I ended up taping some of the larger seams shut to get the best performance out of it. It's also supposedly quite good at PET, which will be a lot less draft-sensitive. I haven't tried this though.
Only works with Z-Suite (that I know of) which isn't hard to master but was slightly lacking in flexibility until recently.
It's not the quickest machine.
Prusa:
I built mine from kit. Took about 8-hours to complete neatly. Easy to do though I had to be a little careful persuading the x-z axis slide components to fit (plastic bits 3d printed by Prusa).
Print quality depends on how you slice your models but generally excellent. PLA results are the dog's and I get excellent results from PET. I also have a Print Dry, which allows me to print nylon. Again, very good but can warp unless you use an enclosure.
Prusa's take on Slic3R is now easy to use but I have reservations about its support-generation (I don't get on with Cura, either). I bought Simplify3D a while back and results from this can be absolutely stunning.
Depending on what you are creating, I might be tempted to get a Prusa kit. I've seen great results from Creality machines but they seem to break after a bit.
Zortrax:
VERY good at printing styrenic materials - ABS, Z-Ultrat (ABS + small amount of PC) and ASA. However, you will need the door kit and something to close the lid off, such as the HEPA cover, to get properly split-free large prints and warp-free,large thin-wall prints. I ended up taping some of the larger seams shut to get the best performance out of it. It's also supposedly quite good at PET, which will be a lot less draft-sensitive. I haven't tried this though.
Only works with Z-Suite (that I know of) which isn't hard to master but was slightly lacking in flexibility until recently.
It's not the quickest machine.
Prusa:
I built mine from kit. Took about 8-hours to complete neatly. Easy to do though I had to be a little careful persuading the x-z axis slide components to fit (plastic bits 3d printed by Prusa).
Print quality depends on how you slice your models but generally excellent. PLA results are the dog's and I get excellent results from PET. I also have a Print Dry, which allows me to print nylon. Again, very good but can warp unless you use an enclosure.
Prusa's take on Slic3R is now easy to use but I have reservations about its support-generation (I don't get on with Cura, either). I bought Simplify3D a while back and results from this can be absolutely stunning.
Depending on what you are creating, I might be tempted to get a Prusa kit. I've seen great results from Creality machines but they seem to break after a bit.
Lovely. Just the sort of replies I was looking for.
I'd mainly be printing car parts for my project, be that engine or interior. Bespoke parts, things that require dimensional accuracy with repeatable results, and for parts that are NLA. I'm sure I could find other uses for it too.
Budget is up to £1000. £500 is more realistic though.
The Prusa sounds ideal. Newer and cheaper than the Zortrax.
I'm still pretty new to 3d printing and I'm trying to learn quickly, I've never really given it much thought. I've seen some prints that have a really smooth surface finish, as if they were moulded, and some prints with clearly visible print lines and a very rough surface finish. What's the deal with this?
I'd mainly be printing car parts for my project, be that engine or interior. Bespoke parts, things that require dimensional accuracy with repeatable results, and for parts that are NLA. I'm sure I could find other uses for it too.
Budget is up to £1000. £500 is more realistic though.
The Prusa sounds ideal. Newer and cheaper than the Zortrax.
I'm still pretty new to 3d printing and I'm trying to learn quickly, I've never really given it much thought. I've seen some prints that have a really smooth surface finish, as if they were moulded, and some prints with clearly visible print lines and a very rough surface finish. What's the deal with this?
fiju said:
Lovely. Just the sort of replies I was looking for.
I'd mainly be printing car parts for my project, be that engine or interior. Bespoke parts, things that require dimensional accuracy with repeatable results, and for parts that are NLA. I'm sure I could find other uses for it too.
Budget is up to £1000. £500 is more realistic though.
The Prusa sounds ideal. Newer and cheaper than the Zortrax.
I'm still pretty new to 3d printing and I'm trying to learn quickly, I've never really given it much thought. I've seen some prints that have a really smooth surface finish, as if they were moulded, and some prints with clearly visible print lines and a very rough surface finish. What's the deal with this?
(Saturday night wine consumption warning)I'd mainly be printing car parts for my project, be that engine or interior. Bespoke parts, things that require dimensional accuracy with repeatable results, and for parts that are NLA. I'm sure I could find other uses for it too.
Budget is up to £1000. £500 is more realistic though.
The Prusa sounds ideal. Newer and cheaper than the Zortrax.
I'm still pretty new to 3d printing and I'm trying to learn quickly, I've never really given it much thought. I've seen some prints that have a really smooth surface finish, as if they were moulded, and some prints with clearly visible print lines and a very rough surface finish. What's the deal with this?
I've not done anything automotive (electronics housings, consumer products, proper industrial stuff years ago etc) but I reckon you will have problems with thermal distortion / creep and possibly UV, depending on where your parts are used.
PLA is generally dire at temps much above 50degC and you will need to look at PETs and styrenics (someone who designs this stuff can chime in here). UV is a pain in the backside but ASA handles it well, or you can paint your prints.
For stuff that is starting to get warm you can look at the various reinforced materials (there are some reinforced nylons out there that might work). Beyond that there are the PEEK / PPS type materials which require a printer somewhat different (£££) to those you are looking at. Looks as if Zortrax are about to release such a machine but it will be expensive...
Note that you may need to buy some hardened nozzles for the reinforced materials (not too costly)
The surface finish thing in 3D prints is layer and material related. You can specify a layer thickness (0.1, 0.15, 0.2 etc Prusa, 0.14, 0.19, 0.29 etc Zortrax) which will offer you a trade off of surface finish / print time / mechanical strength. Some materials won't print well in thin layers, some can only be extruded at low flow rates etc. Also, ABS an be vapour smoothed in acetone to give an injection moulded-like finish. Never done this - too much of a faff. PLA and PETs won't vapour smooth to the best of my knowledge.
There is a PVB type material from Polymakr that alcohol smooths. I have a spool but it's been sat in the drawer for the last year so I can't comment on how effective this is. Also, see PLA heat issues...
Having typed all of that, what you can do is mock stuff up on your printer and test until happy, then send parts out to Materialise/3TRPD/CRDM etc to be produced via another additive method in a proper engineering material.
I've found myriad uses for 3DP domestically, either printing trinkets / models for kids to repairing stuff round the house.There's various bits of furniture / hardware around our house given a stay of execution courtesy of some 3dp PET or nylon (I'm not tight, my OH is heavily into the three Rs so approved for home use). I also use them for work!
Another thought, avoid the Chinese cost-reduced fire hazards. There are some stupidly cheap machines out there but a quick trawl of Youtube / Reddit etc can bring up some horrendous tales.
Flashforge do good machines, some of which may well end up badged as Dremel. Not sure about the range of materials supported.
ETA Robox, UK company. Good machines, some on ebay, build volume a bit small though.
Flashforge do good machines, some of which may well end up badged as Dremel. Not sure about the range of materials supported.
ETA Robox, UK company. Good machines, some on ebay, build volume a bit small though.
Edited by Insanity Magnet on Sunday 15th September 11:53
Insanity said:
... I had to be a little careful persuading the x-z axis slide components to fit (plastic bits 3d printed by Prusa).
I had that problem, talk about a tight fit ...For OP - the Prusa is mostly made in-house, and the plastic parts of the printer are all 3d printed by, oddly enough, Prusa printers. They have something like 300 printers running 24/7 making new printers. The files to print parts are downloadable, so should you need a new part, just print one.
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