Discussion
Hi all,
Just replaced the whole rear braking system on an 04 E46 Manual 3 Series (325i M Sport) from the brake pipes at the bulkhead back - quite a task it has to be said. Anyway, changed all the Brake pipes, Discs, pads, handbrake shoes, springs, clips, flexi pipes, the lot and the handbrake is rubbish! Worse than before! Anything over a slight incline has the car rolling slowly unless it is in gear.
Wound the adjusters inside the drum (of the disc) right up until they are locking the drum and then slackened back until dragging then tightened both cables inside the car so the handbrakes is around 6 clicks fully on and I mean fully on.
I have tried driving around with the handbrake on for 10 to 15 seconds at a time to bed the shoes in which has marginally improved the situation but still not very good. The drums of the discs both get nice and hot when Ido this so they are working to a degree.
The cables are definatley attached to the mechanisim on both sides and are not siezed and working fine (I checked these when we had the fuel tank, exhaust system, heat shield and prop shaft off).
The new discs were pattern parts and had the Britex? coating on them (like a silver paint) which I didnt remove and I am pretty sure the shoes were nice and clean when the discs went on (ie no oil or brake fluid contamination) and I didnt use any brake grease.
I would welcome any thoughts or suggested cures before I strip the whole thing down again.
It seems to me these handbrake shoes are not part of the foot brake system and are only applied by the handbrake and take ages to bed in, is it that they only work to a limited degree?
My thought is to check for contamination and high spots on the shoes as well as if I have fitted them correctly
, if nothing there then just roughen up the shoes and the drum and apply a liberal dousing of brake cleaner.
Any advice or comment would be welcome.
Just replaced the whole rear braking system on an 04 E46 Manual 3 Series (325i M Sport) from the brake pipes at the bulkhead back - quite a task it has to be said. Anyway, changed all the Brake pipes, Discs, pads, handbrake shoes, springs, clips, flexi pipes, the lot and the handbrake is rubbish! Worse than before! Anything over a slight incline has the car rolling slowly unless it is in gear.
Wound the adjusters inside the drum (of the disc) right up until they are locking the drum and then slackened back until dragging then tightened both cables inside the car so the handbrakes is around 6 clicks fully on and I mean fully on.
I have tried driving around with the handbrake on for 10 to 15 seconds at a time to bed the shoes in which has marginally improved the situation but still not very good. The drums of the discs both get nice and hot when Ido this so they are working to a degree.
The cables are definatley attached to the mechanisim on both sides and are not siezed and working fine (I checked these when we had the fuel tank, exhaust system, heat shield and prop shaft off).
The new discs were pattern parts and had the Britex? coating on them (like a silver paint) which I didnt remove and I am pretty sure the shoes were nice and clean when the discs went on (ie no oil or brake fluid contamination) and I didnt use any brake grease.
I would welcome any thoughts or suggested cures before I strip the whole thing down again.
It seems to me these handbrake shoes are not part of the foot brake system and are only applied by the handbrake and take ages to bed in, is it that they only work to a limited degree?
My thought is to check for contamination and high spots on the shoes as well as if I have fitted them correctly
, if nothing there then just roughen up the shoes and the drum and apply a liberal dousing of brake cleaner.Any advice or comment would be welcome.
They can be an utter b
d to sort out. Make sure the handbrake lever end of the cable is fully slackened before you adjust up the drum end. Once that's done, adjust the lever end and give it some exercise to bed the shoes in - low speed driving and pulling the lever up. Leave a wheel bolt out and periodically fire some brake cleaner in there to help the shoes bed in.
d to sort out. Make sure the handbrake lever end of the cable is fully slackened before you adjust up the drum end. Once that's done, adjust the lever end and give it some exercise to bed the shoes in - low speed driving and pulling the lever up. Leave a wheel bolt out and periodically fire some brake cleaner in there to help the shoes bed in. I’ve been through this more than once on my 330D touring
My solution
Slacken off the handbrake lever nuts so the cable(s) is most definitely slack. Very long 10 mm socket required.
Check the backplates are in good condition especially where the quarter turn spring/bolt things go through.
Take the discs off and ensure there is no wear ridge on the bores. If there is, get it turned off or replace the discs. Adjust the mechanism so the discs can just be pushed on.
Put a slight smear of grease on the adjustment mechanism notched wheel affair before assembling. Adjust the mechanism so the disc can be just turned by hand, but not spun - does that make sense?
Now go back in the car and take up the slack with the nuts on the handbrake lever. Check both wheels operate with the same amount of bite. Adjust to suit.
This task may need repeating until they work properly.
Wait 4-6 months and repeat the exercise.
Thankfully most MOT testers tend to realise that E46 handbrakes are rubbish and allow more leeway. Whether they should do or not is another matter.
Taking the whole handbrake cable out is no fun either….
My solution
Slacken off the handbrake lever nuts so the cable(s) is most definitely slack. Very long 10 mm socket required.
Check the backplates are in good condition especially where the quarter turn spring/bolt things go through.
Take the discs off and ensure there is no wear ridge on the bores. If there is, get it turned off or replace the discs. Adjust the mechanism so the discs can just be pushed on.
Put a slight smear of grease on the adjustment mechanism notched wheel affair before assembling. Adjust the mechanism so the disc can be just turned by hand, but not spun - does that make sense?
Now go back in the car and take up the slack with the nuts on the handbrake lever. Check both wheels operate with the same amount of bite. Adjust to suit.
This task may need repeating until they work properly.
Wait 4-6 months and repeat the exercise.
Thankfully most MOT testers tend to realise that E46 handbrakes are rubbish and allow more leeway. Whether they should do or not is another matter.
Taking the whole handbrake cable out is no fun either….
Thanks for all the tips guys, dont think the handbrake cables are stretched as the adjuster nuts are about halfway down the threads inside the car when its adjusted to around 5 clicks and know I didnt replace them. Hope I dont have to either due to the work involved.
I am going to try the adjustment procedure suggested and the magic brake cleaner trick as their is always the chance there could be some contamination inside even though they are new. The quarter turn clips andre springs are new and the back plates appear to be ok.
I'll let you know how I get on but am off on Holiday for a few weeks so it might be into October before I respond.
I am going to try the adjustment procedure suggested and the magic brake cleaner trick as their is always the chance there could be some contamination inside even though they are new. The quarter turn clips andre springs are new and the back plates appear to be ok.
I'll let you know how I get on but am off on Holiday for a few weeks so it might be into October before I respond.
I've never known a handbrake cable to stretch.
The problem with BMW handbrakes is that whilst the discs are round, the shoes often are slightly the wrong shape sop they don't fully contact the disc surface. This is why you need to drive the car around the block, 30 mph and give the handbrake about 10 good applications t o bed the shoes into the disc.
I've literally just finished an E36 - same thing. New discs and shoes and even with the handbrake lever at breaking point, the bd thing won't hold on a hill nose down. After doping the above it now bites far more convincingly. BMW handbrakes were fine when new so they should work OK now.
The problem with BMW handbrakes is that whilst the discs are round, the shoes often are slightly the wrong shape sop they don't fully contact the disc surface. This is why you need to drive the car around the block, 30 mph and give the handbrake about 10 good applications t o bed the shoes into the disc.
I've literally just finished an E36 - same thing. New discs and shoes and even with the handbrake lever at breaking point, the b
d thing won't hold on a hill nose down. After doping the above it now bites far more convincingly. BMW handbrakes were fine when new so they should work OK now. Thanks again to all replies.
Update is I stripped both sides at the weekend, all was fitted correctly (you tube is my new best friend) and the majority of each brake shoe (at least 75% of its friction circumference) was showing signs of wear / contact as you would expect, the internal drum surface was fully marked by the shoes, again as you would expect.
Shoes were quite shiny looking, drum surface was good, some dust but again, as you would expect.
So, roughened up all shoes and drums with emery paper (80 grit), cleaned out the dust and put it all back together again, adjusted the wheel adjusters right up and then the handbrake cables inside the car to around 6 or 7 clicks, drove around for a few miles applying the handbrake for 10 to 15 seconds and, eureka, a marked improvement! was even holding on my steep drive, but only just.
HOWEVER, within a few days it has regressed back, this leads me to think the aftermarket shoes are a poor quality in terms of friction material and are shining up, so I have bit the bullet and ordered a BMW original part set on line form BMW Park Lane in London.
The shoes, springs, adjusters, retention pins and handbrake attachment thing comes as a kit at £63 and £10 for 4 new caliper carrier bolts (mine are rusty!) which isn't too bad.
Anyway, I'll try these and get back to you all.
My drive is quite steep, probably about a 1 in 6, 1 in 8 but it held beore replacing, begining to think I should have left it alone......
MOT is December so it might be a few weeks before I repsond.
Any hints / comments would be welcome.
Paul
Update is I stripped both sides at the weekend, all was fitted correctly (you tube is my new best friend) and the majority of each brake shoe (at least 75% of its friction circumference) was showing signs of wear / contact as you would expect, the internal drum surface was fully marked by the shoes, again as you would expect.
Shoes were quite shiny looking, drum surface was good, some dust but again, as you would expect.
So, roughened up all shoes and drums with emery paper (80 grit), cleaned out the dust and put it all back together again, adjusted the wheel adjusters right up and then the handbrake cables inside the car to around 6 or 7 clicks, drove around for a few miles applying the handbrake for 10 to 15 seconds and, eureka, a marked improvement! was even holding on my steep drive, but only just.
HOWEVER, within a few days it has regressed back, this leads me to think the aftermarket shoes are a poor quality in terms of friction material and are shining up, so I have bit the bullet and ordered a BMW original part set on line form BMW Park Lane in London.
The shoes, springs, adjusters, retention pins and handbrake attachment thing comes as a kit at £63 and £10 for 4 new caliper carrier bolts (mine are rusty!) which isn't too bad.
Anyway, I'll try these and get back to you all.
My drive is quite steep, probably about a 1 in 6, 1 in 8 but it held beore replacing, begining to think I should have left it alone......
MOT is December so it might be a few weeks before I repsond.
Any hints / comments would be welcome.
Paul
Touring442 said:
I've never known a handbrake cable to stretch.
The problem with BMW handbrakes is that whilst the discs are round, the shoes often are slightly the wrong shape sop they don't fully contact the disc surface. This is why you need to drive the car around the block, 30 mph and give the handbrake about 10 good applications t o bed the shoes into the disc.
I've literally just finished an E36 - same thing. New discs and shoes and even with the handbrake lever at breaking point, the bd thing won't hold on a hill nose down. After doping the above it now bites far more convincingly. BMW handbrakes were fine when new so they should work OK now.
By the way, the shoes bed into a DRUM which is inside the disc (aka ‘drum-in-hat’).The problem with BMW handbrakes is that whilst the discs are round, the shoes often are slightly the wrong shape sop they don't fully contact the disc surface. This is why you need to drive the car around the block, 30 mph and give the handbrake about 10 good applications t o bed the shoes into the disc.
I've literally just finished an E36 - same thing. New discs and shoes and even with the handbrake lever at breaking point, the b
d thing won't hold on a hill nose down. After doping the above it now bites far more convincingly. BMW handbrakes were fine when new so they should work OK now. Touring442 said:
Pica-Pica said:
By the way, the shoes bed into a DRUM which is inside the disc (aka ‘drum-in-hat’).
Well aware thanks. 
Touring442 said:
Pica-Pica said:
Well to quote you...” The problem with BMW handbrakes is that whilst the discs are round, the shoes often are slightly the wrong shape sop they don't fully contact the disc surface”
Oh dear. Someone needs to get laid tonight! 
“Sarcasm is the last refuge of the imaginatively bankrupt." - Cassandra Clare
PS, I have moved on, I do have a life. My previous one was designing and testing car systems, including brakes. I have also had my own BMW to bits repairing and servicing the same system as discussed. Now, I have little interest in doing it myself, and would prefer to pay some-one else to do it (or change my car more regularly).
PPS. For OP and others, check the brake back-plate slots (that accommodate the parking-brake shoe retaining pins) have not corroded away. Otherwise everything else will be in vain. The material of that backplate is not of a sufficient standard. The solution is to replace it with a cut backplate, then re-weld it, otherwise replacing a complete back plate means removing the hub and bearing.
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