Definitive discussion: cloth or paper air filters?
Discussion
It seems opinions on this are somewhat varied.
On my next service (I have a V8 N420), I wanted to bring to the dealer my own BMC cloth filters instead of reverting back to the old paper ones.
Why? I don't really know, it's just something I always did on my cars. I know it won't magically release 50 more HP but I just feel that my money is better spent with cloth, engine is breathing a little better, it's a plug & play mod and that's pretty much it.
But here I started to read about mass airflow sensors clogged, oil and other ugly stories.
What is your take on this?
On my next service (I have a V8 N420), I wanted to bring to the dealer my own BMC cloth filters instead of reverting back to the old paper ones.
Why? I don't really know, it's just something I always did on my cars. I know it won't magically release 50 more HP but I just feel that my money is better spent with cloth, engine is breathing a little better, it's a plug & play mod and that's pretty much it.
But here I started to read about mass airflow sensors clogged, oil and other ugly stories.
What is your take on this?
Edited by EVR on Friday 20th September 08:23
Its not the O2 sensors that suffer but the mass airflow meters when an oiled filter is over saturated. The oil mist burns or fouls the element in the meter and causes incorrect calibration or failure.
My preference is for a sponge/foam/gauze type filter, correctly oiled with the correct, sticky oil as it will retain more dirt before it loses efficiency but if you are unsure about cleaning and correctly re-oiling, then stick to paper.
My preference is for a sponge/foam/gauze type filter, correctly oiled with the correct, sticky oil as it will retain more dirt before it loses efficiency but if you are unsure about cleaning and correctly re-oiling, then stick to paper.
8Tech said:
Its not the O2 sensors that suffer but the mass airflow meters when an oiled filter is over saturated. The oil mist burns or fouls the element in the meter and causes incorrect calibration or failure.
My preference is for a sponge/foam/gauze type filter, correctly oiled with the correct, sticky oil as it will retain more dirt before it loses efficiency but if you are unsure about cleaning and correctly re-oiling, then stick to paper.
Right, will correct it in the original post.My preference is for a sponge/foam/gauze type filter, correctly oiled with the correct, sticky oil as it will retain more dirt before it loses efficiency but if you are unsure about cleaning and correctly re-oiling, then stick to paper.
Thanks for the input guys, very informative.
I installed the BMC filters on my Vantage V8 some months ago together with the Velocity Stage 1 Tuning. Installation of Filters needs a lift and 2 hours, filters fit perfectly.
No negative impact until now, but only driven 1000 kms since installing both.
The Velocity Tuning is great, more sporty feeling and more power, together with the BMC filters a good combination.
Regards
Torsten
No negative impact until now, but only driven 1000 kms since installing both.
The Velocity Tuning is great, more sporty feeling and more power, together with the BMC filters a good combination.
Regards
Torsten
V8V Pete said:
What is the hope in using cloth/foam? An extra couple of horsepower, more (some) induction noise or saving money? If there's any risk at all then I can't really see the point TBH.
Good question. I don't know, in my mind it's just a plug & play upgrade. It's peace of mind, really. Must have played too much Gran Turismo in my teen days!I'm sure I've seen a proper filtration test done somewhere. Paper filters offer the best particle filtration. All the other options will let through more dust and grime - not an issue on a race engine or if you aren't going to keep the car for long. If it is a keeper, I'd stick to paper - the power gains are negligible.
drac said:
ITG make filters that fit the Vantage. I’ve had one in my Elise for years now. No issues, the foam filters should technically be a good solution.
I wonder if Mike from BR has an opinion on this.
Hi.I wonder if Mike from BR has an opinion on this.
The same stock paper element on a 4.3L and 4.7L is also fitted to V12 variants which filters flow enough air to produce >565bhp, so that sort of informs that for the V8 airflow requirement, the stock filter isn’t restrictive.
Take the filter out completely and the reduction of induction system losses is so small that any performance gain on the tarmac is imperceivable apart from the driver being fooled there is more performance by hearing a little more induction boom / roar.
The induction losses delivered by fitting the N400 airbox whilst retaining the paper element is as good as it gets short of twin throttle inlet manifold.
The factory went single point air pick pick up (in the grille) because twin / separate air filters during early prototype testing (GT4/ITG style in wheel arch liner) caused a tendency to stall which could not be calibrated out / stopped from happening.
The risk of water ingress is also more of a concern on road cars with GT4 style air filters, not because one filter will suck more or less water through the element than the other, but the lower positioning of the filters and if the car had to wade water is of real concern.
The claims of increased performance from “performance” air filters is greatly over exaggerated, I sell performance, I recommend and fit the factory filter with just replication to the airbox to mimic N400. If fitting a simple filter gave more performance in reality, I’d grab it with both hands and offer it as part of the package of upgrades, but alas, no ponies there!
The only rationale to fit gauze type element would be the continuous renewal cost of the stock part vs re oiling of a gauze element and reuse. The downside to the gauze re oiling is risk of contamination to MAF sensor, and the time taken to clean and oil is greater than the cost of the paper element to renew.
So I can’t see any benefit of the “performance” air filter in reality.
GT4 went that route for the weight save and the philosophy of fitting everything “race” without actually getting data to prove differing from the road car set up actually returned any benefit. The idle speed in race cars is 1000 rpm - to prevent the idle stalling issue
BamfordMike said:
Hi.
The same stock paper element on a 4.3L and 4.7L is also fitted to V12 variants which filters flow enough air to produce >565bhp, so that sort of informs that for the V8 airflow requirement, the stock filter isn’t restrictive.
Take the filter out completely and the reduction of induction system losses is so small that any performance gain on the tarmac is imperceivable apart from the driver being fooled there is more performance by hearing a little more induction boom / roar.
The induction losses delivered by fitting the N400 airbox whilst retaining the paper element is as good as it gets short of twin throttle inlet manifold.
The factory went single point air pick pick up (in the grille) because twin / separate air filters during early prototype testing (GT4/ITG style in wheel arch liner) caused a tendency to stall which could not be calibrated out / stopped from happening.
The risk of water ingress is also more of a concern on road cars with GT4 style air filters, not because one filter will suck more or less water through the element than the other, but the lower positioning of the filters and if the car had to wade water is of real concern.
The claims of increased performance from “performance” air filters is greatly over exaggerated, I sell performance, I recommend and fit the factory filter with just replication to the airbox to mimic N400. If fitting a simple filter gave more performance in reality, I’d grab it with both hands and offer it as part of the package of upgrades, but alas, no ponies there!
The only rationale to fit gauze type element would be the continuous renewal cost of the stock part vs re oiling of a gauze element and reuse. The downside to the gauze re oiling is risk of contamination to MAF sensor, and the time taken to clean and oil is greater than the cost of the paper element to renew.
So I can’t see any benefit of the “performance” air filter in reality.
GT4 went that route for the weight save and the philosophy of fitting everything “race” without actually getting data to prove differing from the road car set up actually returned any benefit. The idle speed in race cars is 1000 rpm - to prevent the idle stalling issue
Thanks for chipping in Mike, you have convinced me in leaving the stock filters, a first in my 20 years since I have the licence! The same stock paper element on a 4.3L and 4.7L is also fitted to V12 variants which filters flow enough air to produce >565bhp, so that sort of informs that for the V8 airflow requirement, the stock filter isn’t restrictive.
Take the filter out completely and the reduction of induction system losses is so small that any performance gain on the tarmac is imperceivable apart from the driver being fooled there is more performance by hearing a little more induction boom / roar.
The induction losses delivered by fitting the N400 airbox whilst retaining the paper element is as good as it gets short of twin throttle inlet manifold.
The factory went single point air pick pick up (in the grille) because twin / separate air filters during early prototype testing (GT4/ITG style in wheel arch liner) caused a tendency to stall which could not be calibrated out / stopped from happening.
The risk of water ingress is also more of a concern on road cars with GT4 style air filters, not because one filter will suck more or less water through the element than the other, but the lower positioning of the filters and if the car had to wade water is of real concern.
The claims of increased performance from “performance” air filters is greatly over exaggerated, I sell performance, I recommend and fit the factory filter with just replication to the airbox to mimic N400. If fitting a simple filter gave more performance in reality, I’d grab it with both hands and offer it as part of the package of upgrades, but alas, no ponies there!
The only rationale to fit gauze type element would be the continuous renewal cost of the stock part vs re oiling of a gauze element and reuse. The downside to the gauze re oiling is risk of contamination to MAF sensor, and the time taken to clean and oil is greater than the cost of the paper element to renew.
So I can’t see any benefit of the “performance” air filter in reality.
GT4 went that route for the weight save and the philosophy of fitting everything “race” without actually getting data to prove differing from the road car set up actually returned any benefit. The idle speed in race cars is 1000 rpm - to prevent the idle stalling issue
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