Lying about a vasectomy, have sex and charged with rape

[anonymous-user]

Saw this online.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershi...

So is it a two way street and one partner telling porkies about being on the pill going to have an equivalent charge? Not to mention the financial implications.

[gruffalo]

Would that be the same as a woman lying about being on the pill?

[Zetec-S]

To be fair, it's a lot easier for a woman to claim they "forgot to take it". Or that they were on it but it "it's not 100% effective".

Can't really say the same about a vasectomy.

[anonymous-user]

gruffalo said:

Would that be the same as a woman lying about being on the pill?

Can't see why not if this decision is upheld.

[rxe]

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

[Robb F]

So consent can now be withdrawn after the fact?

[vaud]

rxe said:

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

Wearing makeup, smart clothes and cleaning your finger nails does not risk getting you pregnant.

The point is he lied and got someone pregnant which in itself brings health risks, as can an abortion, etc.

Hardly a slippery slope.

[ZedLeg]

Robb F said:

So consent can now be withdrawn after the fact?

If that consent was given because of a deception then yes.

[hurstg01]

vaud said:

rxe said:

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

Wearing makeup, smart clothes and cleaning your finger nails does not risk getting you pregnant.

The point is he lied and got someone pregnant which in itself brings health risks, as can an abortion, etc.

Hardly a slippery slope .

probably was once he pulled out

[wiggy001]

vaud said:

rxe said:

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

Wearing makeup, smart clothes and cleaning your finger nails does not risk getting you pregnant.

The point is he lied and got someone pregnant which in itself brings health risks, as can an abortion, etc.

Hardly a slippery slope.

Her: "Do you love me and will you look after me and our children if I get pregnant?"
Him: "Of course darling..."
Him later: "Actually, maybe not. See ya..."

Pregnant because of deception? Yep. Rape?

[anonymous-user]

rxe said:

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

I don't think you have much to worry about if that's the 'slippery slope' you're worrying about.

Sounds a little to me: https://www.skepticsfieldguide.net/2012/08/slipper...

Robb F said:

So consent can now be withdrawn after the fact?

No, it was never true consent at the time.

[rover 623gsi]

The vasectomy lie convictions were overshadowed by the fact Lawrance is a serial rapist who has attacked numerous women.

Clearly not a nice bloke anyway

[PSB1]

rxe said:

That does seem to be the beginning of an incredibly slippery slope. Essentially the argument is that he engaged in a deception to get consent to have sex. What constitutes a deception? Pretty much every interaction between male and female involves a level of deception initially! Make up is deception. Wearing smart clothes and cleaning your fingernails is deception.

This is true. Height as listed on Tinder is another deception. Along with every selfie taken, ever.

[rxe]

vaud said:

Wearing makeup, smart clothes and cleaning your finger nails does not risk getting you pregnant.

The point is he lied and got someone pregnant which in itself brings health risks, as can an abortion, etc.

Hardly a slippery slope.

So rape is now a function of pregnancy likelihood? How about lying in respect of an STD? No, I haven't got crabs, oh whoops, I have. Is that rape? If you have the concept of consent that can be withdrawn after the event then potentially any fact could be material, for either side.

[anonymous-user]

rxe said:

So rape is now a function of pregnancy likelihood? How about lying in respect of an STD? No, I haven't got crabs, oh whoops, I have. Is that rape? If you have the concept of consent that can be withdrawn after the event then potentially any fact could be material, for either side.

You don't.

Think of twin brothers A and B. C is A's girlfriend. B decides to go into C's room and has sex with her. C 'is' consenting at the time because she believes she is having sex with A. Later on she finds out it was B she was having sex with.

She isn't withdrawing consent after the fact. She never gave true consent at the time because she was deceived.

Same principle with this.

[Zetec-S]

rxe said:

So rape is now a function of pregnancy likelihood? How about lying in respect of an STD? No, I haven't got crabs, oh whoops, I have. Is that rape? If you have the concept of consent that can be withdrawn after the event then potentially any fact could be material, for either side.

Perhaps not rape, but...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-4380766...

[anonymous-user]

Zetec-S said:

rxe said:

So rape is now a function of pregnancy likelihood? How about lying in respect of an STD? No, I haven't got crabs, oh whoops, I have. Is that rape? If you have the concept of consent that can be withdrawn after the event then potentially any fact could be material, for either side.

Perhaps not rape, but...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-4380766...

I'd have thought the implications of this case, if held, could have an impact on that type of crime.

[Stay in Bed Instead]

I was the victim of a woman claiming to be on the pill when they weren't which resulted in a child.

Do I have a claim?

[Zetec-S]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

I was the victim of a woman claiming to be on the pill when they weren't which resulted in a child.

Do I have a claim?

Can you prove it?

[anonymous-user]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

I was the victim of a woman claiming to be on the pill when they weren't which resulted in a child.

Do I have a claim?

As above, it seems quite possible if this is upheld it would also apply in those circumstances.