Starting Question
Discussion
As I may have mentioned (repeatedly) my 1986 280i has starting issues. Specifically, it will start immediately when cold and may start repeatedly thereafter (hot or cold) until it decides not to. Thereafter, it appily cranks away but nothing happens. 20 minutes later it may/will start on the first crank.
One thing I recently noticed is this if it's not going to starts (just crank), the RPMs pop up to 500-1,000 (momentarily) then drops to zero while the starter keeps cranking.
Can anyone with a hard-to-start V-6 (VDO gauges) tell me if the RPM gauge shows turns while canking and before it catches? Hoping this might be a clue. Thanks Grady
One thing I recently noticed is this if it's not going to starts (just crank), the RPMs pop up to 500-1,000 (momentarily) then drops to zero while the starter keeps cranking.
Can anyone with a hard-to-start V-6 (VDO gauges) tell me if the RPM gauge shows turns while canking and before it catches? Hoping this might be a clue. Thanks Grady
Mr Zig - If you mean the fuel accumulator, it is new-ish (last spring I think). Also no amount of cranking makes any difference. And after cranking and rattling the throttle it smells gassy so don't think its fuel-starvation related.
I'm guessing it's electrical but I'm not sure how to test for that.
I'm guessing it's electrical but I'm not sure how to test for that.
TVR used two versions...the ceramic version, TVR used a Lucas version using crimps on each end of a coil that can fail over time, it is 100% duty cycle. Modern day copies of the Lucas unit, use a nut and bolt joint that can also fail, BUT it can be stripped /cleaned and re-tightened. Then, the second version is a blue ballast 'wire' (I think obsolete at Ford) about a meter long that loops through the loom. Note that TVR used the same ballast for heater half speed control and dim-dip headlamps X 2, so you may find 3 or 4 of them bolted to chassis (in air flow to keep them cool) that are not related to the ignition. My 280DH '86 has the blue wire version tied as a 12" looped coil to the chassis rail under the air box. A@
Grady said:
Mr Zig - If you mean the fuel accumulator, it is new-ish (last spring I think). Also no amount of cranking makes any difference. And after cranking and rattling the throttle it smells gassy so don't think its fuel-starvation related.
I'm guessing it's electrical but I'm not sure how to test for that.
Sadly in this day and age that means nothing. I'm guessing it's electrical but I'm not sure how to test for that.
Never assume anything with parts these days.
I'll not bore you with my experiences.
Maybe it's flooded 
That'll be water not Gas, I understand it's a little damp down there in the lone star state.
Pull a plug, check for spark, a good blue one.
Crack the fuel system to make sure you have pressure, easiest place is the pressure reg, just make sure you count the turns.
If it's OK there open the line after the Warm up regulator that'll prove you have control pressure.
Did you put Stabil in the tank last time you filled up?
What happens if you spray ether? Does it fire up, if it does, then it's fuel related or possibly just a sticking lift plate..
That'll be water not Gas, I understand it's a little damp down there in the lone star state.
Pull a plug, check for spark, a good blue one.
Crack the fuel system to make sure you have pressure, easiest place is the pressure reg, just make sure you count the turns.
If it's OK there open the line after the Warm up regulator that'll prove you have control pressure.
Did you put Stabil in the tank last time you filled up?
What happens if you spray ether? Does it fire up, if it does, then it's fuel related or possibly just a sticking lift plate..
Grady said:
As I may have mentioned (repeatedly) my 1986 280i has starting issues. Specifically, it will start immediately when cold and may start repeatedly thereafter (hot or cold) until it decides not to. Thereafter, it appily cranks away but nothing happens. 20 minutes later it may/will start on the first crank.
One thing I recently noticed is this if it's not going to starts (just crank), the RPMs pop up to 500-1,000 (momentarily) then drops to zero while the starter keeps cranking.
Can anyone with a hard-to-start V-6 (VDO gauges) tell me if the RPM gauge shows turns while canking and before it catches? Hoping this might be a clue. Thanks Grady
Hi Grady, One thing I recently noticed is this if it's not going to starts (just crank), the RPMs pop up to 500-1,000 (momentarily) then drops to zero while the starter keeps cranking.
Can anyone with a hard-to-start V-6 (VDO gauges) tell me if the RPM gauge shows turns while canking and before it catches? Hoping this might be a clue. Thanks Grady
Sounds like we have very similar issues! Starts from cold and then occasionally doesn't when hot. I've tried a few things unsuccessfully (plugged a few things I thought might be leaks) but no joy. Any luck on your end? I'm going to take it down to a garage and try Ziga's test on the alternator. I'll let you know if it works
Best,
J
Back at this on a beautiful October morning.
The wires slip onto the threads on the coil posts but they are clean ans fit snugly.
Grady
Adrian@ said:
TVR used two versions...the ceramic version, TVR used a Lucas version using crimps on each end of a coil that can fail over time, it is 100% duty cycle. Modern day copies of the Lucas unit, use a nut and bolt joint that can also fail, BUT it can be stripped /cleaned and re-tightened. A@
The "ceramic version". Is that a separate part? If so I'll go looking for it. The wires slip onto the threads on the coil posts but they are clean ans fit snugly.
Grady
IamWedgend said:
Hi Grady,
Sounds like we have very similar issues! Starts from cold and then occasionally doesn't when hot. I've tried a few things unsuccessfully (plugged a few things I thought might be leaks) but no joy. Any luck on your end? I'm going to take it down to a garage and try Ziga's test on the alternator. I'll let you know if it works
Best,
J
Hi All - Sorry, didn't mean to be rude but I I've been off-line with other house projects (rebuilding a bathroom, now in final stages, off to sand a door next). Sounds like we have very similar issues! Starts from cold and then occasionally doesn't when hot. I've tried a few things unsuccessfully (plugged a few things I thought might be leaks) but no joy. Any luck on your end? I'm going to take it down to a garage and try Ziga's test on the alternator. I'll let you know if it works
Best,
J
Background
I've been chasing this problem for some time. The problem is my fault (sort of). I couldn't pass our enhanced emission standards and while there are exceptions, they are a huge pain (they aren't encouraging people to use them). So I parked the car for about 3-4 years until it aged out and now just needs an annual safety inspection. I'd start it and drive around the 'hood some (to get it good and hot) but not enough (yes, with Stabil in the gas).
Interesting that Jeff mentioned flooding. I have a similar problem (one time I hope) with my E38. The battery lost a cell and I 'flooded' it trying to get it started. Put a new battery in and it just spins with no spark b/c the intake is 'flooded'. Hope to get that dried out and resolved later today.
I gotten many helpful suggestions when I focus on the car (which has been rather hit and miss). Now that falls is here, I'm trying it again.
Symptoms
When it starts, it starts on the first crank, sometimes takes 2 or 3 tries to keep it running, but then it's good to go.
When warm/hot sometime it just cranks (like it has no load) but everything is turning, usually after 20 minutes (cool down?) it starts right up on the first turn. (Starting fluid doesn't help)
For a while it would backfire (front fire?) into the the intake hose and with enough force to separate the intake pipe from the rubber cap. (IIRC it hasn't done this recently)
When driving, it's OK up to about 3K, but doesn't want to go above that.
Revs ok with no load.
Status
The fuel pump pressure is ok (I now have an official test kit), and the return flow is w/in spec.
New alternator. No, wait.. accumulator
New intake cap and silicon hose (so no air leaks there)
The coil bench tested OK (1.5 and ~9,500 ohms).
Plug wire are new and test OK
Rotor, cap replaced
Duraspark box replaced
New battery (again)
Ox sensor
Fuel Filter
Probably more stuff I don't remember.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions
Edited by Grady on Sunday 27th October 20:27
Edited by Grady on Wednesday 27th November 15:16
The ceramic version is a stand alone item, it is hot wire (and on the Lucas version), the 'coil/resistor' is crimped (which can fail) on each end, the resistor dissipates heat into the ceramic, the only time it gets bypassed in use is when the car is cranking ...BUT it can be bypassed (with a jump lead, for short test periods) to eliminate it from the system. A@
mrzigazaga said:
Hi Grady.
If it is backfiring that that sounds to me like the timing is out?
Mine was 180 degrees out once and it ran until a massive backfire blew the rubber cap off, there was even a flame...scared the bee gees out of me...
I hear you (had it happen to me before too) but the distributor has never been out of the engine in my ownership and it use to run like a clock as is/was.If it is backfiring that that sounds to me like the timing is out?
Mine was 180 degrees out once and it ran until a massive backfire blew the rubber cap off, there was even a flame...scared the bee gees out of me...
Edited by Grady on Sunday 27th October 20:25
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