Need some 280i injection control pressures
Discussion
Trying to get a new owner sorted with his 280i coupe via email. Sounds like he has been thru the ringer. I am almost to the point that he has tested everything he can and the next step is I am going to have him take it to a local volvo shop to him (the kind that works on early 240s) to do some cis gauge testing to confirm the diagnosis of of too high control pressure at the wur or top of the fuel meter the only hiccup is the only 280i or capri specific pressures I can find are in chart form in a copied too many times fsm that I have. Does anybody have the pressures and corresponding temps so I am not ballparking? His symptoms to me have been pretty classic control pressure too high as he cannot rev it past 4000-4.5k but since he has been to different shops that seem to have thrown parts and emptied his bank acct while not finding or fixing the problem I have had him go thru teatintg any other things that could cause the pressure to be off when warm. He is down to a few things now. That said if anyone here in the states has used cis flowtech or has another recommendation for rebuilding the wur or possibly the meter (still i think it is the wur) that would be helpful as well as I would doubt the shop would rebuild it and want to be ready with recommendations when we get the results. Thank you!
CIS is CIS so a quick google search (audi, volvo, mercedes benz forum) will get you the information. Here's a quick link https://audi.humanspeakers.com/tuning-cise.htm
In my experience it's usually down to stale fuel or vacuum issues
In my experience it's usually down to stale fuel or vacuum issues
Thanks. I have seen the numbers for other cars but it doesn’t jive well with the crappy chart I have best I can tell. Even enlarged it on a copier. He did check for vac leaks early on in my step by step. The only thing left on that end is to do a valve clearance check on the off chance that the engine isn’t making enough vac but that is a reach. I just told him to make sure the thing is in tune before taking it into a shop that doesn’t work on fords. Fuel isn’t stale either. Car actually has lots of miles on it but everything has tested fine up til this point.
benebob said:
Thanks. I have seen the numbers for other cars but it doesn’t jive well with the crappy chart I have best I can tell. Even enlarged it on a copier. He did check for vac leaks early on in my step by step. The only thing left on that end is to do a valve clearance check on the off chance that the engine isn’t making enough vac but that is a reach. I just told him to make sure the thing is in tune before taking it into a shop that doesn’t work on fords. Fuel isn’t stale either. Car actually has lots of miles on it but everything has tested fine up til this point.
What are the symptoms?benebob said:
Plunger is free when moving it to limits when not running but stops before full open when it is running. Getting well over 750cc in 30 seconds at the meter. Runs fine otherwise starts well warms up well just no full movement of the plunger.
If you're talking about the throttle plate, that's controlled by a piston in the center of the fuel distributor (and some vacuum magic). If it's flopping about like the piston is not there, it means that the piston is stuck due to gummed up fuel. Can happen very easily. You can remove the FD and free it up with carb cleaner and compressed air mrzigazaga said:
Is this any use?
http://b2resource.com/PDFs/interjectKJetronic.pdf
Not really as it just shows that systems pressures vary like I already said the chart I have doesn't appear to line up with the pressures I have seen for other cars elsewhere. http://b2resource.com/PDFs/interjectKJetronic.pdf
From Larry at CIS flowtech
Control Pressure
posted on August 31, 2009 by Larry Fletcher | Comments Off on Control Pressure
"This applies to Bosch K-jet only, Control pressure is what “controls” the mixture (rich when cold, lean when warm) this is done by applying pressure to the top of the piston in the center of the fuel distributor. A low pressure allows the piston to move higher in the fuel distributor to provide more fuel for a given air flow. Increasing the pressure forces the piston lower for a leaner mixture for the same air flow. Control pressure needs to be checked cold, and warm. The two wire plug on the warm-up regulator heats the warm-up regulator to lean the mixture early before the engine is completely warm. This is done mostly for emissions regulations. Disconnect this plug for cold testing. While the engine is cold open the valve on the continuous injection system CIS gauge and you will read cold control pressure. Cold control pressure will vary according to temperature. Example, at 10 degrees Celsius you may read 1 to 1.5 bar, at 20 degrees Celsius you may read 1.8 to 2.3 bar. Reconnect the plug to the warm-up regulator and the control pressure should increase over the next few minutes until you reach warm control pressure, usually 3.4 to 3.8 bar. If the car is equipped with acceleration enrichment by means of a vacuum line connected to the top of the warm-up regulator, disconnect it and control pressure should drop 1 to 1.3 bar. These pressure values are approximate and actual pressure values need to be obtained from the manufacturer or Bosch"
Larry is the CIS expert in the US and where everybody sends their FD and WUR's to for rebuild and testing. IMO, CIS systems should be close enough to where you should be in the money with these numbers and any more accuracy is fine tuning.
Control Pressure
posted on August 31, 2009 by Larry Fletcher | Comments Off on Control Pressure
"This applies to Bosch K-jet only, Control pressure is what “controls” the mixture (rich when cold, lean when warm) this is done by applying pressure to the top of the piston in the center of the fuel distributor. A low pressure allows the piston to move higher in the fuel distributor to provide more fuel for a given air flow. Increasing the pressure forces the piston lower for a leaner mixture for the same air flow. Control pressure needs to be checked cold, and warm. The two wire plug on the warm-up regulator heats the warm-up regulator to lean the mixture early before the engine is completely warm. This is done mostly for emissions regulations. Disconnect this plug for cold testing. While the engine is cold open the valve on the continuous injection system CIS gauge and you will read cold control pressure. Cold control pressure will vary according to temperature. Example, at 10 degrees Celsius you may read 1 to 1.5 bar, at 20 degrees Celsius you may read 1.8 to 2.3 bar. Reconnect the plug to the warm-up regulator and the control pressure should increase over the next few minutes until you reach warm control pressure, usually 3.4 to 3.8 bar. If the car is equipped with acceleration enrichment by means of a vacuum line connected to the top of the warm-up regulator, disconnect it and control pressure should drop 1 to 1.3 bar. These pressure values are approximate and actual pressure values need to be obtained from the manufacturer or Bosch"
Larry is the CIS expert in the US and where everybody sends their FD and WUR's to for rebuild and testing. IMO, CIS systems should be close enough to where you should be in the money with these numbers and any more accuracy is fine tuning.
Edited by alabbasi on Tuesday 24th September 14:27
alabbasi said:
From Larry at CIS flowtech
Control Pressure
posted on August 31, 2009 by Larry Fletcher | Comments Off on Control Pressure
"This applies to Bosch K-jet only, Control pressure is what “controls” the mixture (rich when cold, lean when warm) this is done by applying pressure to the top of the piston in the center of the fuel distributor. A low pressure allows the piston to move higher in the fuel distributor to provide more fuel for a given air flow. Increasing the pressure forces the piston lower for a leaner mixture for the same air flow. Control pressure needs to be checked cold, and warm. The two wire plug on the warm-up regulator heats the warm-up regulator to lean the mixture early before the engine is completely warm. This is done mostly for emissions regulations. Disconnect this plug for cold testing. While the engine is cold open the valve on the continuous injection system CIS gauge and you will read cold control pressure. Cold control pressure will vary according to temperature. Example, at 10 degrees Celsius you may read 1 to 1.5 bar, at 20 degrees Celsius you may read 1.8 to 2.3 bar. Reconnect the plug to the warm-up regulator and the control pressure should increase over the next few minutes until you reach warm control pressure, usually 3.4 to 3.8 bar. If the car is equipped with acceleration enrichment by means of a vacuum line connected to the top of the warm-up regulator, disconnect it and control pressure should drop 1 to 1.3 bar. These pressure values are approximate and actual pressure values need to be obtained from the manufacturer or Bosch"
Larry is the CIS expert in the US and where everybody sends their FD and WUR's to for rebuild and testing. IMO, CIS systems should be close enough to where you should be in the money with these numbers and any more accuracy is fine tuning.
Quoting a general description isn't what I am looking for as I stated. If you don't have it please don't post as you are wasting you time. I wouldn't ask if I haven't already been down your dead end road only to get to the point I needed to ask. Oh and there is also a Curly and Moe. Again, you wasted an entire sentence providing no information. Not trying to sound like an arse but if you don't have the info I need don't post. Thanks. Control Pressure
posted on August 31, 2009 by Larry Fletcher | Comments Off on Control Pressure
"This applies to Bosch K-jet only, Control pressure is what “controls” the mixture (rich when cold, lean when warm) this is done by applying pressure to the top of the piston in the center of the fuel distributor. A low pressure allows the piston to move higher in the fuel distributor to provide more fuel for a given air flow. Increasing the pressure forces the piston lower for a leaner mixture for the same air flow. Control pressure needs to be checked cold, and warm. The two wire plug on the warm-up regulator heats the warm-up regulator to lean the mixture early before the engine is completely warm. This is done mostly for emissions regulations. Disconnect this plug for cold testing. While the engine is cold open the valve on the continuous injection system CIS gauge and you will read cold control pressure. Cold control pressure will vary according to temperature. Example, at 10 degrees Celsius you may read 1 to 1.5 bar, at 20 degrees Celsius you may read 1.8 to 2.3 bar. Reconnect the plug to the warm-up regulator and the control pressure should increase over the next few minutes until you reach warm control pressure, usually 3.4 to 3.8 bar. If the car is equipped with acceleration enrichment by means of a vacuum line connected to the top of the warm-up regulator, disconnect it and control pressure should drop 1 to 1.3 bar. These pressure values are approximate and actual pressure values need to be obtained from the manufacturer or Bosch"
Larry is the CIS expert in the US and where everybody sends their FD and WUR's to for rebuild and testing. IMO, CIS systems should be close enough to where you should be in the money with these numbers and any more accuracy is fine tuning.
Edited by alabbasi on Tuesday 24th September 14:27
Thanks Wedgehead but that isn't what I'm looking for at all either. I know how to do it but not what the data should be basically 40psi at 10 degrees c, 33 at 20 degrees c, etc, etc all the way up to normal running temp pressures. It is out there for every other car but still nothing for a 2.8 ford that I can find.
Edited by benebob on Tuesday 24th September 19:26
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