How to answer this question on a job application?
Discussion
A friend of mine, we'll call him B, is in the market for a new job, and has asked for my help in answering the following question on the application form:
- suffered from an eating disorder as a teenager, almost died but fought his way back from the brink and now has it mostly under control, but it is still a daily struggle even now in his late 20s
- while at uni he lost a very close friend to suicide, but aside from the massive personal loss it didn't really severely impact his studies
- one of his favourite middle school teachers died suddenly. as above great personal loss but no long lasting effect on education
- lost more than one school friend to sudden and unexpected causes
- at uni he contracted a severe viral infection and almost died of multiple organ failure, but this was during summer so no real affect on uni work
- B suffers from severe exam anxiety to the point of having passed out during exams, with the resulting negative impact on exam grades
- family history of depression, lost paternal grandmother to suicide (although this was before he was born so no direct impact on him)
However through all the above he has persevered and achieved near perfect A level results (he even studied AS and A2 levels concurrently to make up for lost time from being sick), a very high 2:1 in a maths related degree from a top 20 UK university (it would have been a first but B made the mistake of determinedly going back into an exam after fainting, thus waiving his right to resit it or have any allowances made) and is on track for a merit in geophysics related masters degree from a different but even better university, as well as a year of working at a London technology consultancy firm who were very impressed with his performance and have told him that there will always be a job for him if he wants it. That is to say he is very intelligent, hard working and resilient.
however, in looking online for guidance about how to answer this question the advice is to avoid anything related to mental health, (or drugs or sex, but these are not relevant here) so that is eating disorder, exam anxiety and depression out, and while the death of friends, a teacher and the suicide of his close friend is an awful thing to happen to one person, he didn't really let it have a massive impact on his studies.
Needless to say I don't know what to suggest, and it seems like quite an unfair question to ask as it's one that is only answerable by a very very small number of people who have faced the 'right' kind of personal tragedy.
My tentative reply was to try and cherry pick from his back catalogue of s
t things that have happened to create a narrative that the years of recovery, perseverance and hard work to get back on track were required due to the friend's suicide rather than the eating disorder, but this feels dishonest even if the events described are all real.
What is PH's advice for how to answer this question?
The job role he is applying for is a grad scheme to become an area manager for one of the UK's top retail employers.
application form said:
Please provide an example of where you have experienced a significant setback which really tested your resilience.
Please ensure that you cover:
- What the situation was
- How this made you feel
- How you overcame this
- What the outcome was"
Now, B has had their fair share of setbacks, briefly:Please ensure that you cover:
- What the situation was
- How this made you feel
- How you overcame this
- What the outcome was"
- suffered from an eating disorder as a teenager, almost died but fought his way back from the brink and now has it mostly under control, but it is still a daily struggle even now in his late 20s
- while at uni he lost a very close friend to suicide, but aside from the massive personal loss it didn't really severely impact his studies
- one of his favourite middle school teachers died suddenly. as above great personal loss but no long lasting effect on education
- lost more than one school friend to sudden and unexpected causes
- at uni he contracted a severe viral infection and almost died of multiple organ failure, but this was during summer so no real affect on uni work
- B suffers from severe exam anxiety to the point of having passed out during exams, with the resulting negative impact on exam grades
- family history of depression, lost paternal grandmother to suicide (although this was before he was born so no direct impact on him)
However through all the above he has persevered and achieved near perfect A level results (he even studied AS and A2 levels concurrently to make up for lost time from being sick), a very high 2:1 in a maths related degree from a top 20 UK university (it would have been a first but B made the mistake of determinedly going back into an exam after fainting, thus waiving his right to resit it or have any allowances made) and is on track for a merit in geophysics related masters degree from a different but even better university, as well as a year of working at a London technology consultancy firm who were very impressed with his performance and have told him that there will always be a job for him if he wants it. That is to say he is very intelligent, hard working and resilient.
however, in looking online for guidance about how to answer this question the advice is to avoid anything related to mental health, (or drugs or sex, but these are not relevant here) so that is eating disorder, exam anxiety and depression out, and while the death of friends, a teacher and the suicide of his close friend is an awful thing to happen to one person, he didn't really let it have a massive impact on his studies.
Needless to say I don't know what to suggest, and it seems like quite an unfair question to ask as it's one that is only answerable by a very very small number of people who have faced the 'right' kind of personal tragedy.
My tentative reply was to try and cherry pick from his back catalogue of s
t things that have happened to create a narrative that the years of recovery, perseverance and hard work to get back on track were required due to the friend's suicide rather than the eating disorder, but this feels dishonest even if the events described are all real.What is PH's advice for how to answer this question?
The job role he is applying for is a grad scheme to become an area manager for one of the UK's top retail employers.
Edited by deadtom on Friday 27th September 12:03
Is this his first real job after uni? I’d personally be answering it with a work related challenge but if he’s a graduate applying for his first role his “job” has been uni. Therefore achieving his grades whilst battling through any one of his examples is an achievement. I’d go for the multiple organ failure and still getting good grades unless that was down to hard drugs. The ongoing mental illness with eating could be viewed as a negative by a harsh employer.
You should very rarely, if ever, answer in interview question with a ‘personal’ example...
Think of one from a previous job. If he hasn’t had a previous job, have one from a school/uni project.
I.e, had a group presentation, and 2 people pulled out, so he had to step in and organise the rest, figure out how to distribute the additional work, and then did additional time himself over the weekend to ensure they still gave the best presentation possible.
Think of one from a previous job. If he hasn’t had a previous job, have one from a school/uni project.
I.e, had a group presentation, and 2 people pulled out, so he had to step in and organise the rest, figure out how to distribute the additional work, and then did additional time himself over the weekend to ensure they still gave the best presentation possible.
BoRED S2upid said:
Is this his first real job after uni? I’d personally be answering it with a work related challenge but if he’s a graduate applying for his first role his “job” has been uni. Therefore achieving his grades whilst battling through any one of his examples is an achievement. I’d go for the multiple organ failure and still getting good grades unless that was down to hard drugs. The ongoing mental illness with eating could be viewed as a negative by a harsh employer.
No, the job in London was a proper post graduate job that he had after his bachelors degree and before starting his masters, and the organ failure episode was completely out of the blue (though possibly related to the earlier eating disorder knocking his immune system for 6, but that's just conjecture) and B is not a drug user.So you would suggest creating a narrative composed of real things, but that misses out the mental health issues?
Edited by deadtom on Friday 27th September 12:04
mikees said:
I think they mean setback in a professional environment.
Eg. in writing their final year project their experimental kit was lost so had to start again
M
This is the online advice in question: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/stumped-by-...Eg. in writing their final year project their experimental kit was lost so had to start again
M
and one of the contributors suggests that:
if you told me your greatest setback was a college assignment, i'd think
1. you grew up ridiculously privileged; or
2. you're retarded.
either way, you'd lose points.
Greshamst said:
You should very rarely, if ever, answer in interview question with a ‘personal’ example...
Think of one from a previous job. If he hasn’t had a previous job, have one from a school/uni project.
I.e, had a group presentation, and 2 people pulled out, so he had to step in and organise the rest, figure out how to distribute the additional work, and then did additional time himself over the weekend to ensure they still gave the best presentation possible.
OK, thanks for the suggestion. I don't think either of his degrees involved a group project, but he was head boy in high school so I'm sure he could recall something from there, but would that be considered a worthy answer in an application for a professional role?Think of one from a previous job. If he hasn’t had a previous job, have one from a school/uni project.
I.e, had a group presentation, and 2 people pulled out, so he had to step in and organise the rest, figure out how to distribute the additional work, and then did additional time himself over the weekend to ensure they still gave the best presentation possible.
His work in consultancy saw him working with some absolutely choppers of the middle management variety, but aside from maybe a few instances of having to stay a bit past home time to get the work done I don't think there was much in the way of noteworthy disasters.
deadtom said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Is this his first real job after uni? I’d personally be answering it with a work related challenge but if he’s a graduate applying for his first role his “job” has been uni. Therefore achieving his grades whilst battling through any one of his examples is an achievement. I’d go for the multiple organ failure and still getting good grades unless that was down to hard drugs. The ongoing mental illness with eating could be viewed as a negative by a harsh employer.
No, the job in London was a proper post graduate job that he had between his degree and before starting his masters, and the organ failure episode was completely out of the blue (though possibly related to the earlier eating disorder knocking his immune system for 6, but that's just conjecture) and B is not a drug user.So you would suggest creating a narrative composed of real things, but that misses out the mental health issues?
First sift I’d likely to be on his grades which are ace then they will read these answers and if he achieved excellent grades whilst battling through illness that’s a plus to me he’s not going to take a few days off work with man flu and that’s what retail wants someone hardworking that’s bright. He would hAve had to work extra hard to catch up if he had a few months off in hospital fighting for his life! Most uni students spend their summer being drunk.
deadtom said:
Now, B has had their fair share of setbacks, briefly:
- suffered from an eating disorder as a teenager, almost died but fought his way back from the brink and now has it mostly under control, but it is still a daily struggle even now in his late 20s
- while at uni he lost a very close friend to suicide, but aside from the massive personal loss it didn't really severely impact his studies
- one of his favourite middle school teachers died suddenly. as above great personal loss but no long lasting effect on education
- lost more than one school friend to sudden and unexpected causes
- at uni he contracted a severe viral infection and almost died of multiple organ failure, but this was during summer so no real affect on uni work
- B suffers from severe exam anxiety to the point of having passed out during exams, with the resulting negative impact on exam grades
- family history of depression, lost paternal grandmother to suicide (although this was before he was born so no direct impact on him)
His friends and associates don't have a lot of luck do they?- suffered from an eating disorder as a teenager, almost died but fought his way back from the brink and now has it mostly under control, but it is still a daily struggle even now in his late 20s
- while at uni he lost a very close friend to suicide, but aside from the massive personal loss it didn't really severely impact his studies
- one of his favourite middle school teachers died suddenly. as above great personal loss but no long lasting effect on education
- lost more than one school friend to sudden and unexpected causes
- at uni he contracted a severe viral infection and almost died of multiple organ failure, but this was during summer so no real affect on uni work
- B suffers from severe exam anxiety to the point of having passed out during exams, with the resulting negative impact on exam grades
- family history of depression, lost paternal grandmother to suicide (although this was before he was born so no direct impact on him)
If it were me I wouldn't tell them about the struggle with the eating disorder, or the other personal things. Think how it might look to the person sitting the other side of the interview desk.
Greshamst said:
Ok, so he’s had a job before...
I don’t think you should be advising him.
And if he’s worked in consultancy, and can’t think how to answer this fairly simple question, maybe he shouldn’t be applying for the job...
Well I suppose that's the point, while it is a simple question, coming up with a worthwhile answer is not so straightforward. The easy answer that anyone could give about about some kind of set back at work won't put him in any better light than someone else who has the exact same answer on their application.I don’t think you should be advising him.
And if he’s worked in consultancy, and can’t think how to answer this fairly simple question, maybe he shouldn’t be applying for the job...
They asked me for help because I know them well and given what they have been through, surely there is a better answer to this question than the generic 'some jackass at my last job/uni group project dropped the ball and I had to pick up the slack'?
The Mad Monk said:
His friends and associates don't have a lot of luck do they?
If it were me I wouldn't tell them about the struggle with the eating disorder, or the other personal things. Think how it might look to the person sitting the other side of the interview desk.
They certainly don't, most of these things happened within a 10 mile radius where he used to live back home.If it were me I wouldn't tell them about the struggle with the eating disorder, or the other personal things. Think how it might look to the person sitting the other side of the interview desk.
Indeed, mental health shouldn't be discriminated against, but it's not hard to see and understand why it is.
deadtom said:
- suffered from an eating disorder as a teenager, almost died but fought his way back from the brink and now has it mostly under control, but it is still a daily struggle even now in his late 20s
If this CV landed on my desk its heading directly for the bin. I feel a little bad about that, but not bad enough to chance it with him. Daily struggle today, it gets the better of him and he cries "disability", where do I go from there? No thanks.
If it’s the Aldi grad scheme I’d give it a very, very wide berth and be thankful you can’t answer the question. From friends that have been on it although the pay is very good, they want every bit of you, 6+ days a week, 12+ Hours a day and can dictate where you work, where you love and when you have to move....
Given the obvious academic ability I’d be looking at one of the top 4/ IB grad schemes. Similar pay in the latter but a far better working environment in the former with far greater long-term earnings potential.
Given the obvious academic ability I’d be looking at one of the top 4/ IB grad schemes. Similar pay in the latter but a far better working environment in the former with far greater long-term earnings potential.
The Mad Monk said:
kiethton said:
they want every bit of you, 6+ days a week, 12+ Hours a day and can dictate where you work, where you love and when you have to move....
I mean, dictating where you love!That's beyond the pale, surely?
This is a classic criteria based interview question/answer albeit with the employer trying to appear to care about people.
Traditionally the answer would the structured and assessed using;
S ituation
T ask
A lternatives
R esult.
If an interviewing came back with a personal and not business related example they would be encouraged to come back with an work based one.
So, no different to what your friend needs to do, give a workplace example and structure the answer how they want.
Traditionally the answer would the structured and assessed using;
S ituation
T ask
A lternatives
R esult.
If an interviewing came back with a personal and not business related example they would be encouraged to come back with an work based one.
So, no different to what your friend needs to do, give a workplace example and structure the answer how they want.
BoRED S2upid said:
The Mad Monk said:
kiethton said:
they want every bit of you, 6+ days a week, 12+ Hours a day and can dictate where you work, where you love and when you have to move....
I mean, dictating where you love!That's beyond the pale, surely?
One of the perks of the job? Company car, decent wage and even where and when you do the deed crikey these Germans are efficient.
The key point here is to remember why they’re asking this question. What they’re interested in is how he will deal with a setback when he encounters one at work.
I get the point made about a college paper not being that impressive, but wouldn’t overstate it. The setback just needs to be big enough to need some character to overcome it, it doesn’t have to be life-threatening.
I also wouldn’t feel the need to be 100% literal. I don’t advocate making things up for an interview, but see no issue with hiding/altering aspects that are not pertinent to the point being made. eg You don’t need to say you had a mental illness, it’s fine to say you were too ill to work for a bit and what you did (and be prepared to give a neutral answer if they ask what, eg ‘bit personal, rather not go into the medical aspects if that’s alright with you’)
I get the point made about a college paper not being that impressive, but wouldn’t overstate it. The setback just needs to be big enough to need some character to overcome it, it doesn’t have to be life-threatening.
I also wouldn’t feel the need to be 100% literal. I don’t advocate making things up for an interview, but see no issue with hiding/altering aspects that are not pertinent to the point being made. eg You don’t need to say you had a mental illness, it’s fine to say you were too ill to work for a bit and what you did (and be prepared to give a neutral answer if they ask what, eg ‘bit personal, rather not go into the medical aspects if that’s alright with you’)
This is your bog standard competency style interview question.
Depending on line of work its odds on these will always be asked; usually for something successful, something not successful, situation where project off track, difficult time with manager/co-worker.
It doesn't have to be earth-shattering, it should be work based, or from education if truly your first ever job (avoid personal life): they're just looking at your behaviour in the situation as it's meant to be a predictor of how you will (re) act in similar situation in their job.
Get used to it and start thinking of ones for all the above scenarios.
Though I always thought the 'A' in the pneumonic was for 'action', i.e. what YOU (not anyone else/the team) actually did in that particular circumstance
Depending on line of work its odds on these will always be asked; usually for something successful, something not successful, situation where project off track, difficult time with manager/co-worker.
It doesn't have to be earth-shattering, it should be work based, or from education if truly your first ever job (avoid personal life): they're just looking at your behaviour in the situation as it's meant to be a predictor of how you will (re) act in similar situation in their job.
Get used to it and start thinking of ones for all the above scenarios.
Though I always thought the 'A' in the pneumonic was for 'action', i.e. what YOU (not anyone else/the team) actually did in that particular circumstance
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