How slow is the job market at the moment? IT PM type Stuff

[XJSJohn]

Sniffing around for a possible change (current role is turning out to be not as advertised .... ) and dont seem to be closing any actual interviews.

I work in IT Project and Programme Management, doing DC, Cloud, HCI, Virtualisation, and general Infra stuff.

Applying to adverts, and getting recruiters call me with generally positive noises about my CV, Experience and expected rates (contract and perm) but just don't seem to be closing any interviews.

1 - Are the recruiters just blowing smoke up my arse?
2 - Is there a lot of fishing happening right now
3 - is it just that we are hitting Q4 and budgets?
4 - Is it Brexit?
5 - Am i actually just crap and no one wants to hire me

I have over 20 years experience with clients in Banking, Oil and Gas, Telco and Services industry, mostly Fortune 500 types,

How are others finding things?

[Scabutz]

I think there is a shortage of candidates so a lot of recruiters are fishing for CVs. Also in my experience this time of year can be quiet and it ramps up in Jan.

[XJSJohn]

Scabutz said:

I think there is a shortage of candidates so a lot of recruiters are fishing for CVs. Also in my experience this time of year can be quiet and it ramps up in Jan.

makes sense, it's been many a year since i have been playing in the UK job market, but that does make sense.

There has been a fair bit of "i am meeting client XYZ next week and would like to bring your profile ..... "

[g7orge]

Yes I find this is normally a quiet time of year - Projects already started/coming to an end - End of Jan it will begin to pick up again.

[The jiffle king]

When looking for project managers, I find that many can manage a plan but use email as the primary form of contact.
What I look for is:
Ability to talk business speak rather that just IT
Will Pick up the phone and go and see people to get things done
Focused on delivery of value /benefits and ensure that these are at the front of every discussion

The reason many employers are looking for the same people in my opinion is that the skills above are in short supply but people who can do these things get hired quickly

Wish you well with your search

[Du1point8]

XJSJohn said:

Scabutz said:

I think there is a shortage of candidates so a lot of recruiters are fishing for CVs. Also in my experience this time of year can be quiet and it ramps up in Jan.

makes sense, it's been many a year since i have been playing in the UK job market, but that does make sense.

There has been a fair bit of "i am meeting client XYZ next week and would like to bring your profile ..... "

Join me and the DARK side...

[XJSJohn]

Du1point8 said:

XJSJohn said:

Scabutz said:

I think there is a shortage of candidates so a lot of recruiters are fishing for CVs. Also in my experience this time of year can be quiet and it ramps up in Jan.

makes sense, it's been many a year since i have been playing in the UK job market, but that does make sense.

There has been a fair bit of "i am meeting client XYZ next week and would like to bring your profile ..... "

Join me and the DARK side...

What, Clapham?

Thats a good point though, we were talking about that weren't we ....

[Du1point8]

XJSJohn said:

Du1point8 said:

XJSJohn said:

Scabutz said:

I think there is a shortage of candidates so a lot of recruiters are fishing for CVs. Also in my experience this time of year can be quiet and it ramps up in Jan.

makes sense, it's been many a year since i have been playing in the UK job market, but that does make sense.

There has been a fair bit of "i am meeting client XYZ next week and would like to bring your profile ..... "

Join me and the DARK side...

What, Clapham?

Thats a good point though, we were talking about that weren't we ....

Im in Hampstead darling... not Clarm

[rog007]

XJSJohn said:

Sniffing around for a possible change (current role is turning out to be not as advertised .... ) and dont seem to be closing any actual interviews.

I work in IT Project and Programme Management, doing DC, Cloud, HCI, Virtualisation, and general Infra stuff.

Applying to adverts, and getting recruiters call me with generally positive noises about my CV, Experience and expected rates (contract and perm) but just don't seem to be closing any interviews.

1 - Are the recruiters just blowing smoke up my arse?
2 - Is there a lot of fishing happening right now
3 - is it just that we are hitting Q4 and budgets?
4 - Is it Brexit?
5 - Am i actually just crap and no one wants to hire me

I have over 20 years experience with clients in Banking, Oil and Gas, Telco and Services industry, mostly Fortune 500 types,

How are others finding things?

I’ve picked up on two things.

First; your current role not turning out as advertised.

There’s plenty to go at on just this, the root cause of your issue.

Can you reflect upon why this is? What could you have done differently to have helped identify this before you accepted the role? Otherwise you may make the same mistake again in your next role.

Is there any opportunity in your existing role/organisation to improve matters, which is often a more efficient way of fixing things rather than jumping ship? Have you discussed anything with your line manager or other departmental managers in your organisation. Are there other roles being advertised that you may be suitable for?

Secondly, if all of that comes up with nought, then you do indeed need to keep applying for new roles until you secure one that fits. Failing at interview is not always a sign of outright incompetence, but rather you’re not the best fit for the role. You can liken it to Jack Nicholson not getting a role in a new movie; it won’t be because he’s not a great actor, rather he wasn’t quite right for that particular role.

If however you still sense your interview skills could do with a polish, there are folk out there who can assist.

Good luck!

[ceesvdelst]

In a recent period of unemployment, I found myself going through similar themes.

I would apply routinely for probably 10 jobs a week, some really good, some merely a way of trying to gain access to recruiters and/or agencies and some simply bog standard jobs that might bide the time before getting something decent.

I would find alarming lack of interest, frequent lack of response. And also weirdly times when you seemed invisible, you were applying, chasing dpown responses, and for days at a time it seemed as though the entire recruitment industry was on holiday.

I found Monday and Friday rather worthless particularly!

[leemanning]

John, just sent you a PM that could be relevant.

[XJSJohn]

leemanning said:

John, just sent you a PM that could be relevant.

Cheers, just replied

[XJSJohn]

rog007 said:

XJSJohn said:

Sniffing around for a possible change (current role is turning out to be not as advertised .... ) and dont seem to be closing any actual interviews.

I work in IT Project and Programme Management, doing DC, Cloud, HCI, Virtualisation, and general Infra stuff.

Applying to adverts, and getting recruiters call me with generally positive noises about my CV, Experience and expected rates (contract and perm) but just don't seem to be closing any interviews.

1 - Are the recruiters just blowing smoke up my arse?
2 - Is there a lot of fishing happening right now
3 - is it just that we are hitting Q4 and budgets?
4 - Is it Brexit?
5 - Am i actually just crap and no one wants to hire me

I have over 20 years experience with clients in Banking, Oil and Gas, Telco and Services industry, mostly Fortune 500 types,

How are others finding things?

I’ve picked up on two things.

First; your current role not turning out as advertised.

There’s plenty to go at on just this, the root cause of your issue.

Can you reflect upon why this is? What could you have done differently to have helped identify this before you accepted the role? Otherwise you may make the same mistake again in your next role.

Is there any opportunity in your existing role/organisation to improve matters, which is often a more efficient way of fixing things rather than jumping ship? Have you discussed anything with your line manager or other departmental managers in your organisation. Are there other roles being advertised that you may be suitable for?

Secondly, if all of that comes up with nought, then you do indeed need to keep applying for new roles until you secure one that fits. Failing at interview is not always a sign of outright incompetence, but rather you’re not the best fit for the role. You can liken it to Jack Nicholson not getting a role in a new movie; it won’t be because he’s not a great actor, rather he wasn’t quite right for that particular role.

If however you still sense your interview skills could do with a polish, there are folk out there who can assist.

Good luck!

Quite simply, I was overseas for a long time and chose to return to the UK, I started the interview process for this role whilst still overseas, role was to be a contract position. At the 11th hour, having returned to the UK, secured mortgage in principle for a property and started the visa process for the wife, the employment terms were suddenly changed to Fixed Term with loads of benefits that i specifically did not want or need (Pensions, company health, car leasing deals, loads of training on methodologies that are parallel to qualifications i already hold etc etc) , and a greatly reduced cash element (which i did need). It is also the sort of organisation that i am happy doing for 6 or 12 months as a contractor but not the sort of organisation that i want to make a perm position out of, however i had already (foolishly perhaps, counting chickens before the hatched) committed a lot to getting everything set up and did not have the time to go looking for an alternative so effectively forced myself into a role i would otherwise not have taken.

I have given the job 6 months to see if it will still work for me, but it is very obviously a long term wrong fit for me.

Edit to add - i do like the 26 days paid leave though ...

[XJSJohn]

ceesvdelst said:

I found Monday and Friday rather worthless particularly!

Monday hangovers and POETS day.

[XJSJohn]

I suspect that as i am new back in the UK market after a good long time away, i don't have the network of Recruiters that i have a good relationship with, had the face to face meetings with etc that others at my level who have been longer term in the UK Job market have.

I am effectively applying for Senior PM and Programme Manager roles at quite a high level as is my background and experience, but i am up against other candidates that already have that relationship with the recruiters that are doing the screening, so i need to get out and drink lots of coffee

I do agree that i am seeing a lot of job adverts reappearing too, but they seem to be a combination of "impossible wishlist of skills" and / or low rate for role so are struggling to secure candidates that the client wants

[Carl_Manchester]

XJSJohn said:

I suspect that as i am new back in the UK market after a good long time away, i don't have the network of Recruiters that i have a good relationship with, had the face to face meetings with etc that others at my level who have been longer term in the UK Job market have.

I am effectively applying for Senior PM and Programme Manager roles at quite a high level as is my background and experience, but i am up against other candidates that already have that relationship with the recruiters that are doing the screening, so i need to get out and drink lots of coffee

I do agree that i am seeing a lot of job adverts reappearing too, but they seem to be a combination of "impossible wishlist of skills" and / or low rate for role so are struggling to secure candidates that the client wants

PM market in general has been shrinking since around 2014. Too many candidates.

Plenty of roles doing software development delivery management but the rates tend to be aimed at people in their early 20s.

[XJSJohn]

Carl_Manchester said:

PM market in general has been shrinking since around 2014. Too many candidates.

Doesn't surprise me either ... hey hum.

[TobyTR]

Best wishes, Op. Hope the market has picked up for you

I'll be in a similar position come March next year

[XJSJohn]

TobyTR said:

Best wishes, Op. Hope the market has picked up for you

I'll be in a similar position come March next year

There seems to be some movement in the last week, guessing combination of New Calendar year and one way or another a direction on brexit imminent may be driving this.

[J1JPE]

Having been a permie>contractor>permie again, worked 'overseas' then returned to the UK, I've realised that their are people who manage their 'careers' (like a game of monopoly) and those who put life before work with a gig economy mindset (this includes people who react to changes in work/life circumstances, redundancy or health issues or drift from one internal vacancy to another). Often the split is because some have a mortgage, kids in school, wife who works locally and can't relocate; others don't.

Like choosing which car to buy, rent, own; think of yourself as a product/service and how your service history and circumstances align into a 5 year 'plan' that will convince a perspective manager that they should invest in hiring you because you'll enhance their image, reputation, performance. Sales & Marketing essentially but also a two-way dance where the power swings between buyer and seller.

Reputation and contacts count for a lot either way. Key is identifying the roles where you are a top candidate (where you would employ you). Contact people you've worked with/for who know what would suit you, you know that if they fit in there then you would also etc and ask their help.

If you treat the next role as a project, consider requirements like location, company sector/size; search LinkedIn, Adzuna to find roles you 'want' then match your qualifications and experience against the spec, you'll see when the fit is 90% plus (anything less don't bother). If nothing fits then review requirements, new skills/experience needed. Once subscribed to vacancy alerts, the 'right' roles come to your inbox, it doesn't matter which agency is handling it, there are too many to network with all these days and the people are young so change frequently.

All comments about Brexit, budgets, IR35, time of year are true; also, smaller companies are expanding while multi nationals centralise, outsource or contract meaning those on the inside with the 'monopoly' plan stay put and move in to new 'hotel' roles.

Edited by J1JPE on Thursday 12th December 11:09