Discussion
It's very hard to make a decent diagnosis on an acute injury as it's so sore, so don't take the meniscus diagnosis as gospel. Try to start getting it moving and ask your GP for a physio referral. Round us something that acute would be urgent and shod be seen within 2 weeks.
It would probably be worth a private physio appointment if you can, to get things going.
It would probably be worth a private physio appointment if you can, to get things going.
I had ongoing knee locks and something popping out of my knee which when pressed back in unlocked the knee. I would then go and run a marathon with no isseus. And it would happen again.
Had an arthroscopy and it stopped locking up, the surgeon said there was nothing wrong with my knees and he had let the spirits out.
Then my knee pain increased significantly xray and mri revealed a torn and flipped double minisucus. Consultant didn't want to operate, pain got better until one day went again at parkrun. One month of hobbling, unable to go upstairs.
It is better now, so it can heal. Just give it some time.
Had an arthroscopy and it stopped locking up, the surgeon said there was nothing wrong with my knees and he had let the spirits out.
Then my knee pain increased significantly xray and mri revealed a torn and flipped double minisucus. Consultant didn't want to operate, pain got better until one day went again at parkrun. One month of hobbling, unable to go upstairs.
It is better now, so it can heal. Just give it some time.
I tore my meniscus when, on the day after coming back from our honeymoon, our loft water tank spectacularly overflowed and started flooding the upstairs. I rushed up the loft ladder, turned sharply, felt a pang, fixed the leak, came back down, and then couldn’t bend my leg.
After a fluid drain and some physio I was good for 5 years, when one evening I was walking up the stairs with my son in arms, turned at the top and a familiar pain shot through my knee. That tear needed surgery (debridement), but definitely worth trying physio first, surgery is a longer recovery time than people think.
After a fluid drain and some physio I was good for 5 years, when one evening I was walking up the stairs with my son in arms, turned at the top and a familiar pain shot through my knee. That tear needed surgery (debridement), but definitely worth trying physio first, surgery is a longer recovery time than people think.
You say "given the diagnosis" but you don't have a diagnosis yet, and I would suggest only an experienced knee practitioner is going to make it. Don't hang onto the first thing that you are told.
You need an Acute Knee Clinic (which all good hospital Trusts should have), an experienced knee practitioner, an MRI or something similar for diagnostic value and reliability. They are not all the same level of detection for a problem. For instance MRI can miss 1 in 20 pathologies, or find the wrong thing in another 1 in 20.
If it isn't getting better then you need a diagnosis.
We repair some soft-tissue things under the age of 35 ish, so time is of the essence if you are in this patient group.
I can't diagnose you or treat you, but get it sorted using the broad advice on this forum.
Hi Isaac - can your GP not refer you directly to a hot knee clinic run by the local Orthopaedic team?
In my region GP's can't directly order MRI scans so this route would be better.
However if you are stuck and getting no where with GP you could attend ED.
Aim to attend at a time likely to have least patients 10-11AM any weekday but Monday.
Be polite and explain your symptoms and non resolution of problems.
Most sensible ED physicians will refer you to a knee clinic for further assessment by T&O.
COI ED Consultant.
In my region GP's can't directly order MRI scans so this route would be better.
However if you are stuck and getting no where with GP you could attend ED.
Aim to attend at a time likely to have least patients 10-11AM any weekday but Monday.
Be polite and explain your symptoms and non resolution of problems.
Most sensible ED physicians will refer you to a knee clinic for further assessment by T&O.
COI ED Consultant.
tyrone1973 said:
Hi Isaac - can your GP not refer you directly to a hot knee clinic run by the local Orthopaedic team?
In my region GP's can't directly order MRI scans so this route would be better.
However if you are stuck and getting no where with GP you could attend ED.
Aim to attend at a time likely to have least patients 10-11AM any weekday but Monday.
Be polite and explain your symptoms and non resolution of problems.
Most sensible ED physicians will refer you to a knee clinic for further assessment by T&O.
COI ED Consultant.
Precisely. In my region GP's can't directly order MRI scans so this route would be better.
However if you are stuck and getting no where with GP you could attend ED.
Aim to attend at a time likely to have least patients 10-11AM any weekday but Monday.
Be polite and explain your symptoms and non resolution of problems.
Most sensible ED physicians will refer you to a knee clinic for further assessment by T&O.
COI ED Consultant.
An MRI is only as good as the surgeon who interprets it. That's why MRI of various body parts has been taken away from GPS.
You are a direct casualty of the degredation of the GP service, it has driven you to A&E, when your problem is now no longer an A or an E. And we wonder why the 4 hour target is the worst now in 15 years
The_Doc said:
You say "given the diagnosis" but you don't have a diagnosis yet, and I would suggest only an experienced knee practitioner is going to make it. Don't hang onto the first thing that you are told.
You need an Acute Knee Clinic (which all good hospital Trusts should have), an experienced knee practitioner, an MRI or something similar for diagnostic value and reliability. They are not all the same level of detection for a problem. For instance MRI can miss 1 in 20 pathologies, or find the wrong thing in another 1 in 20.
If it isn't getting better then you need a diagnosis.
We repair some soft-tissue things under the age of 35 ish, so time is of the essence if you are in this patient group.
I can't diagnose you or treat you, but get it sorted using the broad advice on this forum.
It's still this. You need an Acute Knee Clinic (which all good hospital Trusts should have), an experienced knee practitioner, an MRI or something similar for diagnostic value and reliability. They are not all the same level of detection for a problem. For instance MRI can miss 1 in 20 pathologies, or find the wrong thing in another 1 in 20.
If it isn't getting better then you need a diagnosis.
We repair some soft-tissue things under the age of 35 ish, so time is of the essence if you are in this patient group.
I can't diagnose you or treat you, but get it sorted using the broad advice on this forum.
Partially tore mine snowboarding a few years ago, pretty fantastic toe edge catch to scorpion... limped for about 6 months but it eventually sorted itself out, did some physio and wore a hinged steel brace, was back snowboarding after a few weeks but it was a long time before i could do more than a fast walk or stride without limping.
I have torn a meniscus twice in the last 12 months - in effect what you have is a doughnut shaped piece of cartilage under your knee cap that frays at the edges as you get older, it happens to everyone. Sometimes under duress those frays split inwards and you are left with the bone rubbing together at the gap that is left. You can have keyhole surgery that trims around the edges but that does increase the chances of arthritic type pain later in life. I do have psoriatic arthritis which is controlled with a prescription of drugs so know how bloody painful arthritis is so do avoid surgery if possible would be my personal bit of advice.
I fortunately have private health care with work, I saw an NHS GP who just said rest it as they couldnt diagnose (and wouldn't sign off on an MRI) but two weeks later went private and within a couple of days was with a specialist, had an MRI done then back the following week with the proper diagnosis. Cannot say how brilliant private cover is and such a relief to be reassured by people that know whats going on. Mine took 8-9 weeks to recover.
If its giving you a fair bit of grief still the specialist did say that for some people acupuncture helps relieve the pain in the short term - you should also be working on your quads (google online for meniscus recovery exercises) to get them activating as this will offset the pressure on your knee.
All assuming it is a meniscus tear of course!
I fortunately have private health care with work, I saw an NHS GP who just said rest it as they couldnt diagnose (and wouldn't sign off on an MRI) but two weeks later went private and within a couple of days was with a specialist, had an MRI done then back the following week with the proper diagnosis. Cannot say how brilliant private cover is and such a relief to be reassured by people that know whats going on. Mine took 8-9 weeks to recover.
If its giving you a fair bit of grief still the specialist did say that for some people acupuncture helps relieve the pain in the short term - you should also be working on your quads (google online for meniscus recovery exercises) to get them activating as this will offset the pressure on your knee.
All assuming it is a meniscus tear of course!
coldel said:
...... under your knee cap...................
You can have keyhole surgery that trims around the edges but that does increase the chances of arthritic type pain later in life.
There's no meniscal cartilage under the knee cap, sorry. There are a pair in the tibiofemoral joint. You can have keyhole surgery that trims around the edges but that does increase the chances of arthritic type pain later in life.
And removing torn Meniscus does NOT lead to to arthritis. Once it's torn it is useless, so removing the torn bit has no prognostic knock-on. Your statement is wrong. Surgery for symptomatic lesions is very safe and very effective.
Sadly the actual tear can lead to osteoarthritis, which is why early diagnosis with a view to meniscal repair is the way forward (in the under 35s)
And MRI is increasingly poor at diagnosing symptomatic meniscal tears as the decades go by.
If I scan normal, asymptomatic people from the street, the chance of finding false positives is high in the over 50s. And scans MISS SEEING TEARS.
Its all about a skilled clinician
coldel said:
I have torn a meniscus twice in the last 12 months - in effect what you have is a doughnut shaped piece of cartilage under your knee cap that frays at the edges as you get older, it happens to everyone. Sometimes under duress those frays split inwards and you are left with the bone rubbing together at the gap that is left. You can have keyhole surgery that trims around the edges but that does increase the chances of arthritic type pain later in life. I do have psoriatic arthritis which is controlled with a prescription of drugs so know how bloody painful arthritis is so do avoid surgery if possible would be my personal bit of advice.
I fortunately have private health care with work, I saw an NHS GP who just said rest it as they couldnt diagnose (and wouldn't sign off on an MRI) but two weeks later went private and within a couple of days was with a specialist, had an MRI done then back the following week with the proper diagnosis. Cannot say how brilliant private cover is and such a relief to be reassured by people that know whats going on. Mine took 8-9 weeks to recover.
If its giving you a fair bit of grief still the specialist did say that for some people acupuncture helps relieve the pain in the short term - you should also be working on your quads (google online for meniscus recovery exercises) to get them activating as this will offset the pressure on your knee.
All assuming it is a meniscus tear of course!
Stupid GP!I fortunately have private health care with work, I saw an NHS GP who just said rest it as they couldnt diagnose (and wouldn't sign off on an MRI) but two weeks later went private and within a couple of days was with a specialist, had an MRI done then back the following week with the proper diagnosis. Cannot say how brilliant private cover is and such a relief to be reassured by people that know whats going on. Mine took 8-9 weeks to recover.
If its giving you a fair bit of grief still the specialist did say that for some people acupuncture helps relieve the pain in the short term - you should also be working on your quads (google online for meniscus recovery exercises) to get them activating as this will offset the pressure on your knee.
All assuming it is a meniscus tear of course!
I tore my meniscus when out running; it wasn't painful as such but swelled right up. As I'm in the RAF I saw the medic that day. I'm on an Army camp so the treatment was really excellent. I was referred to an excellent physio department and was given some top treatment - their kit is top notch. No improvement was quickly identified, and I was referred both to the Regional Rehab Unit and private healthcare for an MRI and X-ray. RRU agreed with the surgical review, post-scans, that I needed surgery - not only on the tear (inside) but also the degenerative damage (outer).
Injury in July, scans in October, surgery at the start of Jan this year. I'm no longer running unfortunately, but even if I was minded to I have so much on my plate (resettlement, relocation, degree) that I still wouldn't be dedicating time to running.
Injury in July, scans in October, surgery at the start of Jan this year. I'm no longer running unfortunately, but even if I was minded to I have so much on my plate (resettlement, relocation, degree) that I still wouldn't be dedicating time to running.
The_Doc said:
There's no meniscal cartilage under the knee cap, sorry. There are a pair in the tibiofemoral joint.
And removing torn Meniscus does NOT lead to to arthritis. Once it's torn it is useless, so removing the torn bit has no prognostic knock-on. Your statement is wrong. Surgery for symptomatic lesions is very safe and very effective.
Sadly the actual tear can lead to osteoarthritis, which is why early diagnosis with a view to meniscal repair is the way forward (in the under 35s)
And MRI is increasingly poor at diagnosing symptomatic meniscal tears as the decades go by.
If I scan normal, asymptomatic people from the street, the chance of finding false positives is high in the over 50s. And scans MISS SEEING TEARS.
Its all about a skilled clinician
Just passing on what the guy told me as I understood it. NO NEED TO CAPITALISE or bold text I can read stuff in lower case and normal text, just makes you look a bit on your high horse and if I am quite honest, makes you look very immature. Happy to be corrected, but be an adult about it and not an online loud mouth who if you met me face to face would never talk the way you do here. And removing torn Meniscus does NOT lead to to arthritis. Once it's torn it is useless, so removing the torn bit has no prognostic knock-on. Your statement is wrong. Surgery for symptomatic lesions is very safe and very effective.
Sadly the actual tear can lead to osteoarthritis, which is why early diagnosis with a view to meniscal repair is the way forward (in the under 35s)
And MRI is increasingly poor at diagnosing symptomatic meniscal tears as the decades go by.
If I scan normal, asymptomatic people from the street, the chance of finding false positives is high in the over 50s. And scans MISS SEEING TEARS.
Its all about a skilled clinician
Amazing how many educated intelligent people cannot communicate as an adult and resort to child like oneupmanship...I guess they are everywhere, even in the apparently respected medical profession.
Edited by coldel on Friday 1st November 16:40
The_Doc said:
Thanks for the insults, bye.
Truth hurts. Read back what you said, imagine chatting to a perfectly normal mate in the pub, would you raise your voice, point your finger, try to belittle their opinion? Thats what you have done. Sorry you have been called out, I am a reasonable chap just trying to help someone relaying back my personal experience of it - as I say I have no problem being wrong and being corrected, you might do well to learn the same lesson in terms of how you treat people. coldel said:
Truth hurts. Read back what you said, imagine chatting to a perfectly normal mate in the pub, would you raise your voice, point your finger, try to belittle their opinion? Thats what you have done. Sorry you have been called out, I am a reasonable chap just trying to help someone relaying back my personal experience of it - as I say I have no problem being wrong and being corrected, you might do well to learn the same lesson in terms of how you treat people.
Sorry, don't take offence, but you seem a bit over touchy, The Doc was only trying to be helpful, he knows his stuff off past experience on here, and highlighting stuff is quite normal if you want to make a point.I had an arthrosopy for a meniscus tear ten years ago, (on the NHS) I have been fine until about a year ago when knee pain returned, in fact it was very bad around July, I couldn't even walk half a mile without being in pain, but thankfully it seems to be getting better by itself, I don't really want to be having surgery if I don't have to at 66.
Wacky Racer said:
Sorry, don't take offence, but you seem a bit over touchy, The Doc was only trying to be helpful, he knows his stuff off past experience on here, and highlighting stuff is quite normal if you want to make a point.
I had an arthrosopy for a meniscus tear ten years ago, (on the NHS) I have been fine until about a year ago when knee pain returned, in fact it was very bad around July, I couldn't even walk half a mile without being in pain, but thankfully it seems to be getting better by itself, I don't really want to be having surgery if I don't have to at 66.
Not overly touchy, but fed up with people instead of passing on their knowledge in an adult way, instead trying to belittle and speak down to people. Why do people online seem to think that comments require this attitude? When you read a book are the important bits on each page bolded for you or capitalised? I had an arthrosopy for a meniscus tear ten years ago, (on the NHS) I have been fine until about a year ago when knee pain returned, in fact it was very bad around July, I couldn't even walk half a mile without being in pain, but thankfully it seems to be getting better by itself, I don't really want to be having surgery if I don't have to at 66.
I appreciate he is helping, I appreciate it! I am man enough to hear and learn (life is a learning experience from the day you are born to the day you die) but why do people have to be so condescending about it. Clearly you can see from his response he doesn't see and doesn't listen. His loss.
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