'I wish the bank had asked about my spending'
Discussion
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50129033
Part of me thinks it is a sensible idea, but the main part of me believes that this should be the responsibility of the account holder, not the bank.
If the bank is to "take ownership" of an account holders problem, then it should be up to the account holder to contact the bank and set the criteria. This is not fool proof though.
"I went to the bank to withdraw the money and they gave it to me without any questions," said Ms Whiteman, a sales adviser.
When I have withdrawn a largish amount of money I have been asked what it is for - often a car purchase. If the subject of this news article had have been asked and replied stating that she was buying a car, it should not be up to the bank to stop her.
I await a million posts telling me I am wrong, and that it is the banks problem to prevent individuals spending their money.
Part of me thinks it is a sensible idea, but the main part of me believes that this should be the responsibility of the account holder, not the bank.
If the bank is to "take ownership" of an account holders problem, then it should be up to the account holder to contact the bank and set the criteria. This is not fool proof though.
"I went to the bank to withdraw the money and they gave it to me without any questions," said Ms Whiteman, a sales adviser.
When I have withdrawn a largish amount of money I have been asked what it is for - often a car purchase. If the subject of this news article had have been asked and replied stating that she was buying a car, it should not be up to the bank to stop her.
I await a million posts telling me I am wrong, and that it is the banks problem to prevent individuals spending their money.
flacko said:
wasn't she aware of her spending?
No.That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
Munter said:
flacko said:
wasn't she aware of her spending?
No.That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
amusingduck said:
She's responsible for looking after her money. It's really that simple
Yes and no. A particularly bad depressive phase can result in hospitalisation as a suicide risk and people in a manic phase can be quite hard to deal with until the meds and time bring them back to normal. Of course, declaring someone unfit to take care of their own finances without sectioning them might be a little tricky.Munter said:
flacko said:
wasn't she aware of her spending?
No.That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
There's many solutions for those who can be bothered.
SpeckledJim said:
Munter said:
flacko said:
wasn't she aware of her spending?
No.That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
I don't want to do that for free as it's probably a lot of work, so I'd suggest a company do that, perhaps for a small fee.
If she was diagnosed as bi-polar, you'd think she would have set up some safeguards on her account to prevent her from blowing the lot - i.e weekly or monthly spending limits.
The bank could or should have been able to help her with that.
But it's not for the bank to pre-suppose that anyone might have a mental illness and try to stop them spending their own money. That's unworkable.
The bank could or should have been able to help her with that.
But it's not for the bank to pre-suppose that anyone might have a mental illness and try to stop them spending their own money. That's unworkable.
amusingduck said:
Notice accounts? Move it into another bank, cut up the card, disable online banking?
There's many solutions for those who can be bothered.
But they won't be that bothered. It'd need to be as simple as a single click on an option in an app, that they spot during a moment of clarity. But if they want to undo is as much of a ball ache as setting up multiple accounts and stopping the bank sending you a replacement card.There's many solutions for those who can be bothered.
Munter said:
No.
That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
It doesn't work though - how can the bank possibly make a value judgement about whether spending is worthwhile? That's ultimately the issue. She isn't aware of her spending. There's lots of people like her who simply can't control their spending. If there's money they'll spend it on "stuff" until the money runs out and something stops them. You may as well ask these people to stop breathing. They simply can't do it.
It would be great if people could have a bank account which limits their spending. A service which they can opt into for a small fee (which they'll happily pay as they can't stop spending).
I don't know if such an account exists. But I think it'd be a good idea for many people.
If people want this facility, then they need to sort out a power of attorney with a solicitor - then the solicitor is well placed to make the decisions. That costs money.
I have some sympathy.
I also have bi-polar and recognise everything in the BBC link.
Between 2000 and 2009, before I was diagnosed I earned around £100k in bonuses and £15k in redundancy at the end from my banking industry job on top of a better than average salary, I was a single Man without kids, despite all that I was usually in debt, I dodged a couple of CCJs for trivial sums (which would have meant I lost my job) and was usually skint.
I was magnetically opposed to money. When I was down I couldn't bring myself to look at my balance, when I was up no problem was so great that it couldn't be fixed, although I didn't really care to think how. When things got bad I'd simply cancel any DDs and wait till the letters arrived, then bin them.
To give an example of how bad I was, in around 2006 I decided I needed to build up a bit of a credit report, I planned to buy a flat next bonus season, not that I needed to wait, I could have got a cheap 100% mortgage through work and the payments were lower than my rent, but it was a bit too much to think about.
Anyway, Capital One gave me a 'Baby Card' with a £500 limit, the day it arrived I spent the lot on a PS3 and some Blurays, when the bill arrived the minimum payment was £25 or so, this put me into a complete panic, that I couldn't afford to pay that so I didn't pay it and that single decision lead to me paying about £1200 to avoid a Court Case about a year later. I was 27 at the time and I earned about £40k that year.
But I'm not sure what the Bank could have done to help me, they were actually great when I came to terms with my illness, I had years of penalty fines returned which help me out of a big hole and I've flipped the other way now, I'm a tight as a ducks arse. I wouldn't go crying to them about my over-spending though, I bought bicycles, motorbikes, holidays, cars, lots of booze and I'll admit some of it went up my nose, the rest, as they say, I wasted.
I also have bi-polar and recognise everything in the BBC link.
Between 2000 and 2009, before I was diagnosed I earned around £100k in bonuses and £15k in redundancy at the end from my banking industry job on top of a better than average salary, I was a single Man without kids, despite all that I was usually in debt, I dodged a couple of CCJs for trivial sums (which would have meant I lost my job) and was usually skint.
I was magnetically opposed to money. When I was down I couldn't bring myself to look at my balance, when I was up no problem was so great that it couldn't be fixed, although I didn't really care to think how. When things got bad I'd simply cancel any DDs and wait till the letters arrived, then bin them.
To give an example of how bad I was, in around 2006 I decided I needed to build up a bit of a credit report, I planned to buy a flat next bonus season, not that I needed to wait, I could have got a cheap 100% mortgage through work and the payments were lower than my rent, but it was a bit too much to think about.
Anyway, Capital One gave me a 'Baby Card' with a £500 limit, the day it arrived I spent the lot on a PS3 and some Blurays, when the bill arrived the minimum payment was £25 or so, this put me into a complete panic, that I couldn't afford to pay that so I didn't pay it and that single decision lead to me paying about £1200 to avoid a Court Case about a year later. I was 27 at the time and I earned about £40k that year.
But I'm not sure what the Bank could have done to help me, they were actually great when I came to terms with my illness, I had years of penalty fines returned which help me out of a big hole and I've flipped the other way now, I'm a tight as a ducks arse. I wouldn't go crying to them about my over-spending though, I bought bicycles, motorbikes, holidays, cars, lots of booze and I'll admit some of it went up my nose, the rest, as they say, I wasted.
Muzzer79 said:
If she was diagnosed as bi-polar, you'd think she would have set up some safeguards on her account to prevent her from blowing the lot - i.e weekly or monthly spending limits.
The bank could or should have been able to help her with that.
But it's not for the bank to pre-suppose that anyone might have a mental illness and try to stop them spending their own money. That's unworkable.
Unfortunately, most people who are nuts, don't know they're nuts, once they do, they usually get better. The bank could or should have been able to help her with that.
But it's not for the bank to pre-suppose that anyone might have a mental illness and try to stop them spending their own money. That's unworkable.
It would be nearly impossible for someone who hasn't suffered personally or knows a lot about mental health to come up with an 'easy' solution.
She wasn't ill enough to have someone else take power of attorney, nor well enough to know to put safeguards in place.
People clearly haven't read the article.
People have little to no impulse control during manic episodes. Excessive spending, alcohol and/or drug use is pretty common.
Whether or not it should be left to the bank itself to add a measure of control in those situations is a tricky question though.
People have little to no impulse control during manic episodes. Excessive spending, alcohol and/or drug use is pretty common.
Whether or not it should be left to the bank itself to add a measure of control in those situations is a tricky question though.
rxe said:
It doesn't work though - how can the bank possibly make a value judgement about whether spending is worthwhile?
If people want this facility, then they need to sort out a power of attorney with a solicitor - then the solicitor is well placed to make the decisions. That costs money.
Power of attorney would be my suggestion too. If people want this facility, then they need to sort out a power of attorney with a solicitor - then the solicitor is well placed to make the decisions. That costs money.
If you have dementia a POA is ideal, same goes for any illness that could cause poor financial judgement. Problems are diagnosis then acceptance and finally willingness to act.
Not the banks fault in this case, but of course they’re the easiest target.
Things I never thought I'd say.
I feel sorry for banks over this kind of thing.
If they ask "what's the money for?" somebody on here will post an angry thread about "I can't get my own f
king money".
If they ask "what's the money for?" somebody on here will post an angry thread about "My mum got scammed why didn't the bank stop it?".
With the sort of affliction this poor lady suffers from you'd think there may be a way to set a "flag" on a bank account to prompt questioning but is it right or fair to expect bank staff to almost assume the role of medical/care/social workers?
It's very difficult and I can't think of an easy answer.
I feel sorry for banks over this kind of thing.
If they ask "what's the money for?" somebody on here will post an angry thread about "I can't get my own f
king money".If they ask "what's the money for?" somebody on here will post an angry thread about "My mum got scammed why didn't the bank stop it?".
With the sort of affliction this poor lady suffers from you'd think there may be a way to set a "flag" on a bank account to prompt questioning but is it right or fair to expect bank staff to almost assume the role of medical/care/social workers?
It's very difficult and I can't think of an easy answer.
In 1975, I changed jobs from a printer to police officer. I had some savings and expected these to tide me over for the first two years.
Within the first nine months I received a letter (remember them?) asking me to arrange an interview with my bank manager (remember them?). He told me he was concerned that I would be overdrawn within a few months and that I needed to take steps to get myself back in the black, this despite me, at that time, being in credit.
Arrangements were made, advice given, and I only needed to take out a smallish short-term loan (advised me not to have an overdraft) and I became financially stable. It meant getting rid of the TV, car, central heating when the kids weren’t home, and, incidentally, being a bouncer at ABA Championship events in London.
Recently, I got a letter from my bank telling me that I had £3k in my current account and that if I needed advice on what to do with it, to contact an ‘advisor’. Banks should, I think, take an interest in their customers.
My garage points out when it seems that I will need repair work in the near future, and that a cheap bit of remedial work will stop a larger bill later. If they didn’t, I’d probably go to another.
Within the first nine months I received a letter (remember them?) asking me to arrange an interview with my bank manager (remember them?). He told me he was concerned that I would be overdrawn within a few months and that I needed to take steps to get myself back in the black, this despite me, at that time, being in credit.
Arrangements were made, advice given, and I only needed to take out a smallish short-term loan (advised me not to have an overdraft) and I became financially stable. It meant getting rid of the TV, car, central heating when the kids weren’t home, and, incidentally, being a bouncer at ABA Championship events in London.
Recently, I got a letter from my bank telling me that I had £3k in my current account and that if I needed advice on what to do with it, to contact an ‘advisor’. Banks should, I think, take an interest in their customers.
My garage points out when it seems that I will need repair work in the near future, and that a cheap bit of remedial work will stop a larger bill later. If they didn’t, I’d probably go to another.
There is no one size fits all approach to this. Banks can't, and shouldn't get directly involved in someone's mental health, unless you ask them specifically to block access to your account. But they can't reasonably filter payments and make decisions on what is or isn't manic spending.
People need to take ownership of their own actions. If you have manic depression, you should talk to your GP and have a POA put into place, or your family should be supporting you to do so.
You see this type of problem all the time over on the Moneysavingexpert forums - people spend borrowed money on gambling or other things they don't need, then look to blame others for their lack of self control and expect society/banks to bail them out of their bad decisions.
People need to take ownership of their own actions. If you have manic depression, you should talk to your GP and have a POA put into place, or your family should be supporting you to do so.
You see this type of problem all the time over on the Moneysavingexpert forums - people spend borrowed money on gambling or other things they don't need, then look to blame others for their lack of self control and expect society/banks to bail them out of their bad decisions.
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