Garage design for classic cars - Timber or Concrete
Discussion
The problem with concrete garages is that condensation can occur in the winter, has anyone experienced this issue?
I think I may use Timber Cladding built around a steel frame, the steel frame will offer some security.
I have a price for timber cladding from www.benchmarktimber.co.uk who can supply Canadian Western red cedar feather edge cladding which they say would not require any maintenance and it looks fabulous.
Any experience of this would be very useful - has anyone used cedar feather edge cladding on a garage?
I think I may use Timber Cladding built around a steel frame, the steel frame will offer some security.
I have a price for timber cladding from www.benchmarktimber.co.uk who can supply Canadian Western red cedar feather edge cladding which they say would not require any maintenance and it looks fabulous.
Any experience of this would be very useful - has anyone used cedar feather edge cladding on a garage?
Timber frame. Straw bale infill. Lime plaster and limewash. Limecrete floor. Slate roof.
Most other forms of construction will cause condensation.
I spent 50k plus on an 8 bay garage built to modern building regs with a cavity wall construction and insulated roof. Never again.
Now have planning permission for a much better solution as mentioned above.
Most other forms of construction will cause condensation.
I spent 50k plus on an 8 bay garage built to modern building regs with a cavity wall construction and insulated roof. Never again.
Now have planning permission for a much better solution as mentioned above.
Hurricane52 said:
Timber frame. Straw bale infill. Lime plaster and limewash. Limecrete floor. Slate roof.
Most other forms of construction will cause condensation.
Most other forms of construction will cause condensation.
Edited to add:
Oh, and you're in West Wales?
You might want to visit the Centre for Alternative Technology at Machynlleth to witness the defects they've experienced, then read this, before deciding that straw bale construction is a good idea for an unheated building (or even a heated one) in a climate as wet as the west of the UK.
Edited to further add:
You'd get more, and more informed, responses if you get this topic moved to the Homes, Gardens and DIY forum, OP.
But timber every time, versus concrete panel or steel, for breathability. You just have to accept that it won't last as long.
Edited by Equus on Friday 25th October 08:54
The location of the garage can also be a factor: depending on size and proximity to boundary, Building Regulations may demand 'substantially non-combustible' construction, to avoid fire spread. This can be addressed even with timber construction, but at additional cost, so is something to bear in mind.
Note that this applies even if there is nothing at the other side of your boundary but open fields.
Note that this applies even if there is nothing at the other side of your boundary but open fields.
I stored my lotus elan in a concrete garage with an asbestos roof for two months with a car cover over it for good measure. I was moving house so I didn't have a lot of time on my hands. result the paint had micro blistered all over. The paint prior was perfect and had been repainted 7 years ago. Cost to repaint £8000. I ended up selling the car and buying a new elan- an Mx5. I found out about concrete garages the hard way and am now building a wooden man cave
Equus said:
The location of the garage can also be a factor: depending on size and proximity to boundary, Building Regulations may demand 'substantially non-combustible' construction, to avoid fire spread. This can be addressed even with timber construction, but at additional cost, so is something to bear in mind.
Note that this applies even if there is nothing at the other side of your boundary but open fields.
Not for a garage, but for my office at home, I had to have "fireboard" fitted under the wooden exterior due to how close the building is to the boundary. Note that this applies even if there is nothing at the other side of your boundary but open fields.
My only problem with the building is that ants love to nest inside modern high efficiency foam insulation :-(
Equus said:
Edited to add:
Oh, and you're in West Wales?
You might want to visit the Centre for Alternative Technology at Machynlleth to witness the defects they've experienced, then read this, before deciding that straw bale construction is a good idea for an unheated building (or even a heated one) in a climate as wet as the west of the UK.
Edited to further add:
You'd get more, and more informed, responses if you get this topic moved to the Homes, Gardens and DIY forum, OP.
But timber every time, versus concrete panel or steel, for breathability. You just have to accept that it won't last as long.
Edited by Equus on Friday 25th October 08:54
Hurricane52 said:
I’m not surprised CAT got it all wrong....
What's the exact problem with your current masonry garage?Before demolishing a £50K building and spaffing another £50K (or whatever) on replacing it, you may which to consider whether PIV and a bit of heating (for example) will cure the problem.
.... you might want to calculate how many centuries it would take for the heating bills thus incurred to add up to the cost of the replacement building.
Breathable buildings in and of themselves are a very good idea for unheated garages, but the thickness of straw bale means that with an unheated building, in our climate, you'll get such a shallow moisture gradient through the wall that it is almost inevitable that problems will occur sooner or later.
I'm finishing a garage/workshop. I opted for an oak frame. It's cheaper than brick and blends in with the garden. The outer wall is lapped weather board and the roof is tiled. The next layers are:
a vapour permeable membrane - keeps the weather out but releases water vapour
rockwool - insulates heat and sound (as I intend to work in there) and it's non-flammable
water proof sheet and fire resistant proplex sheet - cheap, waterproof way of covering the inside.
The floor is concrete and painted with an epoxy paint.
As I'm still working on the insulation, lining and electrics, it's too early to say how it will work long-term, but so far I have no complaints.
a vapour permeable membrane - keeps the weather out but releases water vapour
rockwool - insulates heat and sound (as I intend to work in there) and it's non-flammable
water proof sheet and fire resistant proplex sheet - cheap, waterproof way of covering the inside.
The floor is concrete and painted with an epoxy paint.
As I'm still working on the insulation, lining and electrics, it's too early to say how it will work long-term, but so far I have no complaints.
Some interesting but bewildering posts here.
I have a large double unheated garage that I built. Base is insulated raft ,Walls are double concrete block with insulated cavity between, and rendered exterally ,roller doors ,timber roof frame with wp membrane under concrete tiles . Built same as my house just in case I convert it at later date and the build another garage beyond.
Now I live in SW Ireland where it rains almost every day and apart from the four days of sunshine it is misty off the sea or mountains on the other days....I've never experienced condensation on the car that sits uncovered inside or any tools/equipment and although my classic is in an airchamber alongside it it also is free of surface condensation.
Can't understand how you guys are having such problems.
I have a large double unheated garage that I built. Base is insulated raft ,Walls are double concrete block with insulated cavity between, and rendered exterally ,roller doors ,timber roof frame with wp membrane under concrete tiles . Built same as my house just in case I convert it at later date and the build another garage beyond.
Now I live in SW Ireland where it rains almost every day and apart from the four days of sunshine it is misty off the sea or mountains on the other days....I've never experienced condensation on the car that sits uncovered inside or any tools/equipment and although my classic is in an airchamber alongside it it also is free of surface condensation.
Can't understand how you guys are having such problems.
Hurricane52 said:
I spent 50k plus on an 8 bay garage built to modern building regs with a cavity wall construction and insulated roof. Never again.
Do tell what went wrong?My external garage, concrete base with single skin walls (a few layers of brick), is pretty much always filled with condensation on cold metal/glass surfaces when the conditions are right. Doesn't help that I live pretty high up in the west of Scotland.
I've resigned myself to the fact this can't be fixed without impinging too much on interior space, so I may just try running a dehumidifier instead.
steely dan said:
Some interesting but bewildering posts here.
I have a large double unheated garage that I built. Base is insulated raft ,Walls are double concrete block with insulated cavity between, and rendered exterally ,roller doors ,timber roof frame with wp membrane under concrete tiles . Built same as my house just in case I convert it at later date and the build another garage beyond.
Now I live in SW Ireland where it rains almost every day and apart from the four days of sunshine it is misty off the sea or mountains on the other days....I've never experienced condensation on the car that sits uncovered inside or any tools/equipment and although my classic is in an airchamber alongside it it also is free of surface condensation.
Can't understand how you guys are having such problems.
Same here, mine’s attached to the house, with up and overs. It does have a radiator, which is very rarely used. It’s got enough space for 3 cars. I’ve got 2 1960s cars in there, and three machine tools, none of which ever appear to have the slightest amount of condensation on them. And it’s damp up here in Sheffield a lot of the year. I guess the un-sealed garage doors might help, but if it gets really cold I just put the radiator on while I’m in there. No issues at all.I have a large double unheated garage that I built. Base is insulated raft ,Walls are double concrete block with insulated cavity between, and rendered exterally ,roller doors ,timber roof frame with wp membrane under concrete tiles . Built same as my house just in case I convert it at later date and the build another garage beyond.
Now I live in SW Ireland where it rains almost every day and apart from the four days of sunshine it is misty off the sea or mountains on the other days....I've never experienced condensation on the car that sits uncovered inside or any tools/equipment and although my classic is in an airchamber alongside it it also is free of surface condensation.
Can't understand how you guys are having such problems.
Hi Olivera,
Thanks for your question. Sounds like you enjoy the same weather as we do, just a little earlier.
My dream garage was built c.2004. Nothing went hugely wrong. It had eight bays and a four post lift. We squeezed as many as 14 cars into it on occasion. It doubled as a great party space. The reason I wouldn’t do it again is threefold - the condensation caused by weeks of inclement weather, the cold concrete floor which was unpleasant to work on (even in the summer) and the frequency with which the rendered exterior walls needed painting with Weather-shield. I faced the cavity walled facade with field stone, lime pointed it with lime putty mortar (no hydraulic lime available at the time), limewashed it and that looked pristine after ten years (admittedly more sheltered than the cement rendered elevations). As a previous PHer commented, heating it might have been a better idea, especially if I had had capital left to spend on a renewable heat source.
It may have worked out fine if we’d been in another location where the rain was more vertical, but faced with repeating the process on a slightly smaller scale now we have moved, I didn’t fancy repeating the mistakes. I prefer the concept of solid walls which control their own moisture content, getting wet, then drying out again.
Lime harling (roughcast) is an effective exterior finish round here, as it has been across the Atlantic seaboard for hundreds of years. It works on my house, so I will be doing the same on my garage. If it ever stops raining.
I hope the OP lives somewhere less wet - timber and good ventilation is often the very best solution.
Thanks for your question. Sounds like you enjoy the same weather as we do, just a little earlier.
My dream garage was built c.2004. Nothing went hugely wrong. It had eight bays and a four post lift. We squeezed as many as 14 cars into it on occasion. It doubled as a great party space. The reason I wouldn’t do it again is threefold - the condensation caused by weeks of inclement weather, the cold concrete floor which was unpleasant to work on (even in the summer) and the frequency with which the rendered exterior walls needed painting with Weather-shield. I faced the cavity walled facade with field stone, lime pointed it with lime putty mortar (no hydraulic lime available at the time), limewashed it and that looked pristine after ten years (admittedly more sheltered than the cement rendered elevations). As a previous PHer commented, heating it might have been a better idea, especially if I had had capital left to spend on a renewable heat source.
It may have worked out fine if we’d been in another location where the rain was more vertical, but faced with repeating the process on a slightly smaller scale now we have moved, I didn’t fancy repeating the mistakes. I prefer the concept of solid walls which control their own moisture content, getting wet, then drying out again.
Lime harling (roughcast) is an effective exterior finish round here, as it has been across the Atlantic seaboard for hundreds of years. It works on my house, so I will be doing the same on my garage. If it ever stops raining.
I hope the OP lives somewhere less wet - timber and good ventilation is often the very best solution.
lowdrag said:
Wooden double, 36 sq m, insulated floor and walls (aluminium sandwich foil, and two Carcoons seem to have done the job for me for the last 20 years.
Yup, no need to spend zillions on a fancy garage to keep the damp out, an attractive garage with carcoon veloce is perfect.crankedup said:
an attractive garage with carcoon veloce is perfect.
Unless you want to work on the car regularly on ramps or axle stands during autumn/winter, in which case a carcoon looks a pain in the tits. Perhaps not if you've got loads of space to spare, such as just driving it out and into the empty garage space next to it.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff