Changing broken PCM3 to Pioneer system

[nick francis]

The amp in my 2010 997 GTS seems to have died, Sat nav etc all working normally but just no sounds at all.


Given the interface is now looking a bit tired I decided that, rather than spending masses of cash on replacing like for like, how about exchanging the whole system for an Apple car play system with new head unit and amp, also to add reversing camera.

I know this would mean some loss of functionality but Im not sure just how many.

Has anybody been down this route and are there compelling reasons not to go there. I'm very happy with the GTS and am not intending to part with it any time soon.

TIA

[JohnBRG]

I have a 997.1 and replaced PCM2 with a Pioneer Double Din unit with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto and a reverse camera. Massive improvement.

[craigjm]

What functionality do you think you would lose?

[nick francis]

I have the sports chrono so I’m pretty sure I would lose lap timing and the other trip recording and monitoring features, mpg,
Also on PCM3 you control the car locking variations, auto lock one door, both doors, etc
Also controls duration lights stay on after leaving the car,
I’m not sure if the oil measurement which is done from the side stalk uses the pcm to function?
All these things?

[NoTreadLeft]

I did something similar over the summer. Not a Pioneer system - it was actually an Android HU specifically for Porsches. You can see my write-up + pics on the Amazon review here. No regrets at all - having CarPlay in my GTS is brilliant. The only thing you lose from the side stalk is the Audio menu item - everything else (oil, trip computer) works fine. My sports-chrono dashboard clock thingy also seems to work fine. Not that I ever use it.

I had a working (Bose) amp in my car though. Is your broken amp a Bose amp? If so I suspect your install will be quite a bit bigger as I think you'll need to replace the Bose speakers that go with the amp as they are not "normal" impedance.

[jakesmith]

NoTreadLeft said:

I did something similar over the summer. Not a Pioneer system - it was actually an Android HU specifically for Porsches. You can see my write-up + pics on the Amazon review here. No regrets at all - having CarPlay in my GTS is brilliant. The only thing you lose from the side stalk is the Audio menu item - everything else (oil, trip computer) works fine. My sports-chrono dashboard clock thingy also seems to work fine. Not that I ever use it.

I had a working (Bose) amp in my car though. Is your broken amp a Bose amp? If so I suspect your install will be quite a bit bigger as I think you'll need to replace the Bose speakers that go with the amp as they are not "normal" impedance.

This isn’t necessary as there is an amp you can buy that drives the 1 and 2 ohm speakers however having removed Bose from 2 of my Porsches I can confirm that the mid speakers and tweets and amp are utter garbage and not worth making any effort to retain.

Strip the doors down, dynamat, and put in some focal 3.5” components for £250. Retain the Bose door woofers on a 2 ohm stable amp and cross over for sub 125ohm only. Use a 4 channel amp for the front, focal 4.350 works well and sits where the dvd drive goes. Do the whole job for £1k comfortably and blows the old Bose system away.

[N111BJG]

JohnBRG said:

I have a 997.1 and replaced PCM2 with a Pioneer Double Din unit with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto and a reverse camera. Massive improvement.

Any chance of seeing that + precise model you bought
Thanks

[jakesmith]

You can use any double din
Pioneer do an entry model CarPlay head unit with capacitative screen for about £300 it’s a bargain With DAB too

http://caraudiosecurity.com/sph-da130dab-6-2-touch...

Check this thread out which features my build

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Edited by jakesmith on Saturday 26th October 23:07

[NoTreadLeft]

jakesmith said:

I can confirm that the mid speakers and tweets and amp are utter garbage and not worth making any effort to retain.

Bose, Burmester, Harman-Kardon - all the same as far as I can see. They charge you a stupid amount of money to put cheap, nasty speakers with fancy grills all over the car and then use a cheap DSP to make them sound just about tolerable.

I would have changed mine too but my car is still under warranty, so one of my objectives was to be able to get the car back to standard in 15 mins.

[anonymous-user]

JohnBRG said:

I have a 997.1 and replaced PCM2 with a Pioneer Double Din unit with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto and a reverse camera. Massive improvement.

Same here. Came with matching trim so looks OE - particularly if you change the home screen to a Porsche logo (which you can). So much better than the outdated original one.

[jakesmith]

NoTreadLeft said:

Bose, Burmester, Harman-Kardon - all the same as far as I can see. They charge you a stupid amount of money to put cheap, nasty speakers with fancy grills all over the car and then use a cheap DSP to make them sound just about tolerable.

I would have changed mine too but my car is still under warranty, so one of my objectives was to be able to get the car back to standard in 15 mins.

Burmeister I thought was much better but does cost a lot. Meridian in our Evoque is so good it isnt worth replacing

If you’re diy-ing a 987/997 then £1k is plenty for a massive step up from Bose / HK

I also took the Bang & Olafsen system out of my R8 and it was pants. Usual paper speaker cones and an amp that weighs nothing.

[NoTreadLeft]

jakesmith said:

Burmeister I thought was much better but does cost a lot

Worst of the lot, if my experience of recent Merc's is anything to go by!

Just bringing this back on-topic, if you want an OE look I'd strongly recommend looking at some of the Android options. I've had both and I personally found the Pioneer option looked a bit "after market". Here's the Pioneer in my 987 Spyder:


And here's the Android unit in my 997GTS:

When you bear in mind that the latter connects directly to the existing harness, including GPS & radio antennas, it was a no-brainer for me. Sound quality may have been marginally better on the Pioneer but there's not much in it. Both were better than the PCM3.0.

[CrgT16]

Of all I had the Burmester was the best I experienced with very good sound clarity/definition. The Harman Kardon on my 3 series e noticeably better than the Harmann Kardon on the 5 series which was really surprising. I thought the 5 series would have a better spec but maybe it’s a bigger car, don’t know. Even my wife commented that her car (5 series) the sound is thin compared to mine. Played with EQ but to no avail.

I think they are all mid budget some are designed to specific car shape só sound better. A custom is always going to be better but a car interior has hardly a good shape for proper audiophiles sound quality. I stick with manufactures mid range options sub 1k.

[NoTreadLeft]

To be fair I don’t actually think Burmester sounds too bad. When I said “worst of the lot” I was referring to the underlying components e.g. I think the 4” drivers used for Burmester are the exact same cheapo units they use in the base audio system. Mercedes do wonders with the DSP to make them sound tolerable but the margins on Burmester must be eye-watering.

[Murph7355]

NoTreadLeft said:

...
When you bear in mind that the latter connects directly to the existing harness, including GPS & radio antennas, it was a no-brainer for me. Sound quality may have been marginally better on the Pioneer but there's not much in it. Both were better than the PCM3.0.

That looks really good - looks like it's not available now though.

Did it hook up to the mic etc so the hands free worked? And steering wheel control? (I'm assuming not on the later - for things like ending calls?).

Did you add DAB?

If it was around the £200 mark and a straight swap it be a very worthy mod...

[craigjm]

NoTreadLeft said:

jakesmith said:

Burmeister I thought was much better but does cost a lot

Worst of the lot, if my experience of recent Merc's is anything to go by!

You can’t really say that though because the system is different across Mercedes never mind in comparison to the Porsche systems.

[NoTreadLeft]

Murph7355 said:

That looks really good - looks like it's not available now though.

Looks like they’ve updated it to the latest version of Android. Latest version here.

Murph7355 said:

Did it hook up to the mic etc so the hands free worked? And steering wheel control? (I'm assuming not on the later - for things like ending calls?).

I didn’t bother with DAB - don’t think it’s plug-and-play, you need to fit an ugly DAB antenna.

The existing mike does not hook-up. I think you can plug the Xtrons mike into the back but the unit also has a mike hidden behind a tiny hole on the front which I use. It works fine for Siri and the odd call but I hardly ever use the phone in the car so can’t vouch for the sound quality.

I don’t have steering wheel controls on my Sports Steering Wheel so afraid I can’t give you an answer on that functionality. As you can see from my Amazon review, I had to buy some third-party controls (which I fitted in the ash tray) to get quicker access to volume etc. From what I understand the steering wheel controls do work on Boxsters/Caymans but given that I don’t get track info on my instrument cluster (which 987s do) I assume that the 997 CanBus is slightly different.

[NoTreadLeft]

craigjm said:

You can’t really say that though because the system is different across Mercedes never mind in comparison to the Porsche systems.

My comments relate to W205 Mercs. I ended-up upgrading mine and the upgrade speakers I used are also plug-and-play for W222, W217, W253 and W213. I assumed these models therefore use the same cheap/nasty drivers that my W205 used. However you are right, I don’t have direct evidence of those models.

[craigjm]

NoTreadLeft said:

craigjm said:

You can’t really say that though because the system is different across Mercedes never mind in comparison to the Porsche systems.

My comments relate to W205 Mercs. I ended-up upgrading mine and the upgrade speakers I used are also plug-and-play for W222, W217, W253 and W213. I assumed these models therefore use the same cheap/nasty drivers that my W205 used. However you are right, I don’t have direct evidence of those models.

The vast majority of these “systems” are really just marketing exercises. With decent kit you don’t need 20 speakers etc

[Rich.H]

Slightly off topic but for a 991.2 with the standard sound system (no Bose updgrade fitted etc), what is required to deliver a reasonable sound quality whilst maintaining the normal PCM functionality? I understand the inherent limitations of a noisy sports car environment but something offering decent clarity and definition which remains in control at decent volumes? And at what cost?

Thanks

Rich