Original Vanquish - S worth the premium?
Discussion
Sorry if this has been covered before. Love the original Newport Pagnell Vanquish, interested in it as a GT, not a ultra sharp sports car. I have a V12V already. The prices seem to be softening a little and in the US they are particularly good value, with non-S cars being 30-40% cheaper. Given you can have the early gearbox sensors etc upgraded to S spec, or even have a manual conversion, is the S worth the premium?
As the owner of a non S, I would say no.
DBS2000 says he dislikes the early dash, which was changed (imo for the better) on later S models, but early S had same dash, just leather covered - this has been retrospectively done on non S cars by a few owners, but I quite like it (my centre console is body coloured).
I think the S has nicer wheels and boot design, but again don't think this warrants the sometimes large price difference.
The early cars are softer, so suits the GT image. All out performance wise, nothing in it, despite the S having more power and shorter gearing.
My car has the later upgrades to the gear change system that most of the S models had (magnetic sensors, bigger clutch etc).
There is a RHD S model for sale at DD Classics 34K miles for £90K which seems a good price if in decent condition.
I think they are great cars, but do have a professional inspection carried out before you buy. PM me if you have any questions and I will try to answer or if want a recommendation for someone to inspect a potential purchase.
DBS2000 says he dislikes the early dash, which was changed (imo for the better) on later S models, but early S had same dash, just leather covered - this has been retrospectively done on non S cars by a few owners, but I quite like it (my centre console is body coloured).
I think the S has nicer wheels and boot design, but again don't think this warrants the sometimes large price difference.
The early cars are softer, so suits the GT image. All out performance wise, nothing in it, despite the S having more power and shorter gearing.
My car has the later upgrades to the gear change system that most of the S models had (magnetic sensors, bigger clutch etc).
There is a RHD S model for sale at DD Classics 34K miles for £90K which seems a good price if in decent condition.
I think they are great cars, but do have a professional inspection carried out before you buy. PM me if you have any questions and I will try to answer or if want a recommendation for someone to inspect a potential purchase.
Thanks. I am ok with the dash, it dates the car to what it was - a pre-Gaydon car, and I used to have an XK8 which is where it’s from! I will buy in the US where they seem a lot cheaper (and it’s where I live). This is enticing as it has the manual...
Vanquish Manual
Vanquish Manual
My memory is vague about this point, but something was mentioned on this forum about a rusty front subframe.
Think it was a (gen.1) Vanquish, but might be wrong. The subframe was concealed by an undertray, but when discovered, the cost to replace was considerable.
With Gaydon cars the front suspension is mounted on to the alloy chassis. Event though the Vanquish was the first Aston with the new alloy chassis, is the front suspension mounted on to a steel subframe ?
The upper alloy A-arms are mounted to alloy castings that attach to the body structure, while the lower alloy A-arms attach to the steel subframe that supports the engine. So it is a mixture of both. The subframe retains water in its many hollow pieces and rots from the inside out. They don't appear to have been protected from rust with any coating other than some paint.
Edited by DB9VolanteDriver on Friday 25th October 21:46
Difficult to say whether they are worth the premium. I guess it depends on what you want from the car. They look near identical so both are very pleasing on the eye.
As has been said, power difference is minimal in the real world.
Manual is a plus, if it has been done properly. I'm sure the transmission tunnel needs additional strengthening when the gearstick hole is made. 1st 3rd and 5th can be a pain as your hand gets close to the waterfall (apparently) so make sure you're happy with that.
Front subframe does rust. Get it checked or factor in a £5-8k bill for replacement. Bamford Rose in the UK have jigs for all component parts so an old part can be cut out and new inserted, or a complete subframe can be constructed at a fraction of the AM price.
That car only seems to have the standard ICE. On the early cars, this is black and the Linn upgrade is brushed aluminium. There is also no boot amplifier.
As has been said, power difference is minimal in the real world.
Manual is a plus, if it has been done properly. I'm sure the transmission tunnel needs additional strengthening when the gearstick hole is made. 1st 3rd and 5th can be a pain as your hand gets close to the waterfall (apparently) so make sure you're happy with that.
Front subframe does rust. Get it checked or factor in a £5-8k bill for replacement. Bamford Rose in the UK have jigs for all component parts so an old part can be cut out and new inserted, or a complete subframe can be constructed at a fraction of the AM price.
That car only seems to have the standard ICE. On the early cars, this is black and the Linn upgrade is brushed aluminium. There is also no boot amplifier.
Edited by ARAF on Saturday 26th October 09:29
DB9VolanteDriver said:
The upper alloy A-arms are mounted to alloy castings that attach to the body structure, while the lower alloy A-arms attach to the steel subframe that supports the engine. So it is a mixture of both. The subframe retains water in its many hollow pieces and rots from the inside out. They don't appear to have been protected from rust with any coating other than some paint.
Thank you Steve. I am interested in your detailed description.
I suppose Gaydon owners are lucky that further development took place, to eliminate the steel subframe.
Before Aston Martin began constructing their own alloy chassis, which was later than the opening of the Gaydon factory, they were supplied by a firm in Worcester who also made the Lotus chassis. That firm is now part of Lotus.
I looked at a few non-S and S cars, and I bought an '05 S in 2015. About the price gap, it's a tough question. I think the S is worth more, but I also think the gap is larger than it should be -- the standard car is a real bargain for what it is, and should be closer to the value of the S. IMO, the performance difference is real. No, it's not a big difference, but it's real, and it's most noticeable at the top of the rev range. The S, of course, has the Sports Dynamic Pack. The handling is sharper, and the ride is really quite good -- it's still very much a GT. For me, that added sharpness and responsiveness is a real bonus, because I'm more a sports car guy generally than a GT guy -- personal preference. Also, there were several small improvements in the interior that make a difference -- mostly covering more things in leather. In addition to the center section, things like the steering column cover are leather covered -- it looks and feels better, and the soft-touch coating on the standard car can get sticky, like Ferrari switchgear. I decided the S was worth the difference, but I certainly understand why others don't. All Vanquishes are epic cars.
Jon39 said:
Thank you Steve. I am interested in your detailed description.
I suppose Gaydon owners are lucky that further development took place, to eliminate the steel subframe.
Before Aston Martin began constructing their own alloy chassis, which was later than the opening of the Gaydon factory, they were supplied by a firm in Worcester who also made the Lotus chassis. That firm is now part of Lotus.
Or was it just the Vanquish chassis that came from Worcester and all DB9 chassis came from Gaydon??
I cannot help with the change over date, but I heard from somewhere that the original supplier of either chassis parts, or completed chassis was Holden Lightweight Structures Ltd. They were also suppliers to Lotus, and in 2008, Lotus acquired the business, then renamed it Lotus Lightweight Structures Ltd.
Here is a 2012 article.
https://lotusproactive.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/lo...
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 28th October 22:36
I led the team that set up the the Worcester factory in 98/99 when the chassis production of the Lotus Elise was transferred from Denmark to the UK .(The UK Elise chassis have red glue , the Danish ones blue/green ... )
This was when the factory was owned by Norsk Hydro and was called Hydro Automotive Structures . The factory produced Elise , vx220, 340R and the first Vanquish chassis . The Vanquish chassis is quite different to the later VH as it had a lot of sheet in its manufacture . The first DB9 chassis would have been manufactured in Worcester but I don't know when they moved manufacture in house to Gaydon as I left Hydro in 2003 , not long before "job 1 "
The company was later given to Holden and then bought by Lotus - it is still running today producing Lotus chassis .
This was when the factory was owned by Norsk Hydro and was called Hydro Automotive Structures . The factory produced Elise , vx220, 340R and the first Vanquish chassis . The Vanquish chassis is quite different to the later VH as it had a lot of sheet in its manufacture . The first DB9 chassis would have been manufactured in Worcester but I don't know when they moved manufacture in house to Gaydon as I left Hydro in 2003 , not long before "job 1 "
The company was later given to Holden and then bought by Lotus - it is still running today producing Lotus chassis .
Just be careful not to snap the serpentine belt as fifth gear did twice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I88raeqZAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I88raeqZAY
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff