What track bike???
Discussion
Hello all,
I'm in the early stages of planning a track bike. Background story, been riding from an early age then hitting the road at 16 in 1992 with a 50cc, then to an RS125 Extrema until I sold this at Uni. I then had what turned out to be a 16 year hiatus, rather longer than I would have liked, before coming back to bikes with a Tuono RSV in 2013. I've been on bikes ever since.
Car wise I've done quite a few trackdays but I've since sold the track car about 3 years ago. I'd like to get back into trackdays with a motorbike this time, missus was initially against this but she's coming around now.
I'd like to go with a dedicated track bike. I don't want a 600cc, I'm not light 105kg 5ft11, I find some of the 600's physically too small and suspect they may feel a bit lacking. Being from 90's biking era, I really would fancy a WSB 750 genre, ZX7R or GSXR750 SRAD. I have a ZXR750 already but it's too mint to put on the track. I'd be happy to track one of these but a 7R may be a little easier for parts and a little quicker to boot plus it's slightly different to what I have rather than get the same thing. Power wise a 750 is fine, enough to be interesting but perhaps not so much as to be too much of a handful, I'm thinking a litre bike might be a little too much for a first trackbike, although that said, the RSVR (gen2) bikes also appeals, particularly as they can be had in the 3's and already have Ohlins suspension, light wheels etc out the box, I'm also familiar with the Rotax V-twin engine. Fireblade is another bike in consideration.
Other bikes that appeal are a Benelli Tornado 900 and at a push, a 750 F4 though I realise that's pushing the budget which ideally wants to be around the 3-3.5k bracket for the bike, conscious that whatever I get would then need a bit of budget to prep for track use. Most of the above have cheap race fairings available and parts aren't too much trouble.
Any advice from those who have done this? Anything to avoid? I'd be doing all the work myself, so no probs there.
Cheers
Nitromedes
I'm in the early stages of planning a track bike. Background story, been riding from an early age then hitting the road at 16 in 1992 with a 50cc, then to an RS125 Extrema until I sold this at Uni. I then had what turned out to be a 16 year hiatus, rather longer than I would have liked, before coming back to bikes with a Tuono RSV in 2013. I've been on bikes ever since.
Car wise I've done quite a few trackdays but I've since sold the track car about 3 years ago. I'd like to get back into trackdays with a motorbike this time, missus was initially against this but she's coming around now.
I'd like to go with a dedicated track bike. I don't want a 600cc, I'm not light 105kg 5ft11, I find some of the 600's physically too small and suspect they may feel a bit lacking. Being from 90's biking era, I really would fancy a WSB 750 genre, ZX7R or GSXR750 SRAD. I have a ZXR750 already but it's too mint to put on the track. I'd be happy to track one of these but a 7R may be a little easier for parts and a little quicker to boot plus it's slightly different to what I have rather than get the same thing. Power wise a 750 is fine, enough to be interesting but perhaps not so much as to be too much of a handful, I'm thinking a litre bike might be a little too much for a first trackbike, although that said, the RSVR (gen2) bikes also appeals, particularly as they can be had in the 3's and already have Ohlins suspension, light wheels etc out the box, I'm also familiar with the Rotax V-twin engine. Fireblade is another bike in consideration.
Other bikes that appeal are a Benelli Tornado 900 and at a push, a 750 F4 though I realise that's pushing the budget which ideally wants to be around the 3-3.5k bracket for the bike, conscious that whatever I get would then need a bit of budget to prep for track use. Most of the above have cheap race fairings available and parts aren't too much trouble.
Any advice from those who have done this? Anything to avoid? I'd be doing all the work myself, so no probs there.
Cheers
Nitromedes
I've had a few different bikes for track use. I wouldn't advise a tornado - even the mirrors are now hard to find and stupidly expensive. Plus there are issues that need to be addressed in the clutch etc.
Have you ruled out litre bikes? Lots at the budget set. Had a 2002 R1 which was quite fun.
ETA: a colleague had a 955i that he loved using on track
Have you ruled out litre bikes? Lots at the budget set. Had a 2002 R1 which was quite fun.
ETA: a colleague had a 955i that he loved using on track
I would strongly advise going for something Japanese or a Triumph. Avoid anything left field, basically anything Italian. Don't rule out a 600, unless it is down to as you say not feeling at home on them. A 600 will teach you way more than you think and you will have huge fun on it, plus there are loads to chose from. 750 wise, you are restricted to the GSXR750, which is a great bike indeed, but that's your lot. A 1000 is only as quick as you open the throttle, so have a look at an early R1, GSXR or Fireblade. The early ZX10 is a handful at times if you are not used to it. Have a look at www.motoforum.co.uk and see what is around on there.
Thanks,
Yes the Tornado would likely be the hardest to get parts for, it's not a sensible choice at all and I should just rule it out, they're in budget and whats not to like about a 900cc triple, mirrors would be removed anyway, I'm aware of the Z25 mods, most should be done by now but yeah it's not a sensible choice.
I haven't ruled out litre bikes but I feel a bit wary of them. I'd rather be thrashing a 750cc than tempering a litre bike. I've no problems with the power on the road but not sure about dumping a load of power under circuit conditions, it may be a lot easier than road but I'd rather concentrate on cornering craft than worrying about being bitten by too much throttle on corner exit or unsettling the bike by having to wipe too much speed off for a bend. I just think a 750 would be a better balance point for my level of experience but this might be nonsense. I'm not overly taken with R1's, later CBR's or GSXR's as much because they are physically smaller as being the default option for this type of thing.
The RSV-R is probably the most sensible option, dry sump too with the least amount of prep required. I don't feel like that's too much power in the RSV because I'm familiar with the engine and power delivery and it's probably less power at this vintage than other litre bikes?
Edit...
Oops, a few posts since typing last reply, thanks for the suggestions, I thought of Daytona but again a little on the small side, agree GSXR would be a good one, great engines too.
I'm not worried about Italian bikes, I have a few and enjoy working on them, they usually have some silly electric issues like rubbish regulators and plastic fuel disconnects but once those things are sorted they're relatively trouble free (certainly Aprilia's anyway) I'm not considering any Ducati's, 916 too small, 1098> too dear.
Thanks for the link, will take a look.
Cheers
Nitromedes
Yes the Tornado would likely be the hardest to get parts for, it's not a sensible choice at all and I should just rule it out, they're in budget and whats not to like about a 900cc triple, mirrors would be removed anyway, I'm aware of the Z25 mods, most should be done by now but yeah it's not a sensible choice.
I haven't ruled out litre bikes but I feel a bit wary of them. I'd rather be thrashing a 750cc than tempering a litre bike. I've no problems with the power on the road but not sure about dumping a load of power under circuit conditions, it may be a lot easier than road but I'd rather concentrate on cornering craft than worrying about being bitten by too much throttle on corner exit or unsettling the bike by having to wipe too much speed off for a bend. I just think a 750 would be a better balance point for my level of experience but this might be nonsense. I'm not overly taken with R1's, later CBR's or GSXR's as much because they are physically smaller as being the default option for this type of thing.
The RSV-R is probably the most sensible option, dry sump too with the least amount of prep required. I don't feel like that's too much power in the RSV because I'm familiar with the engine and power delivery and it's probably less power at this vintage than other litre bikes?
Edit...
Oops, a few posts since typing last reply, thanks for the suggestions, I thought of Daytona but again a little on the small side, agree GSXR would be a good one, great engines too.
I'm not worried about Italian bikes, I have a few and enjoy working on them, they usually have some silly electric issues like rubbish regulators and plastic fuel disconnects but once those things are sorted they're relatively trouble free (certainly Aprilia's anyway) I'm not considering any Ducati's, 916 too small, 1098> too dear.
Thanks for the link, will take a look.
Cheers
Nitromedes
Having looked at your initial post, it seems as though you are no novice to track time and have some decent bike experience. I would therefore be looking at going for a ready done track bike, rather than converting a road bike yourself. You will get more for your money (suspension work done, possible spare wheels, bodywork etc). I get the whole Aprilia thing as yes they have character, but it would be the cost and availability of engine/gearbox spares that would and always has put me off. I started with trackdays and loved it so much I decided to go racing. I had all sorts of ideas about getting something with some soul for trackday use, but noticed the lack of them in the paddock and thought better of it. I went for an R6 and never looked back and stuck with Japanese stuff for all my road and circuit racing career. The availability of used spares is just so much greater with a Japanese machine.
Within a few seconds of looking at motoforum, I found this. Ideal bike, good spec and ready to go with all the necessary upgrades.
http://www.motoforum.net/topic/148417-cbr1000-rr6-...
http://www.motoforum.net/topic/148417-cbr1000-rr6-...
Thanks,
This one caught my eye, now reduced to budget zone too,
http://www.motoforum.net/topic/148021-gsxr-750-man...
I'm not quite ready to buy yet. There's a few things I need to sort out first. I'm quite happy to prep the bike myself as I enjoy spannering on them anyway and do all my own work.
ps, How long ago did you start trackdays/been racing?
Cheers
This one caught my eye, now reduced to budget zone too,
http://www.motoforum.net/topic/148021-gsxr-750-man...
I'm not quite ready to buy yet. There's a few things I need to sort out first. I'm quite happy to prep the bike myself as I enjoy spannering on them anyway and do all my own work.
ps, How long ago did you start trackdays/been racing?
Cheers
Edited by Nitromedes on Monday 28th October 17:22
That is ideal that and really the sort of thing I would be looking at. Things like suspension are well worth investing in, as along with good tyres, this is what keeps you upright. It may seem overkill to start with but it is simply the most important thing you can do to a bike. Stock suspension on a road bike is not great and will let you down ultimately. A decent rear shock is going to set you back £1200 or so and fork internals are in the region of £800, depending on what you go for. But by buying a bike with these on already is a no brainer really. I am in no way shape or form doubting your mechanical skills, but it makes so much sense to buy a ready built product.
I did 4 track days on my 2005 fireblade and was hooked. I started circuit racing in 2006 and went to road racing shortly afterwards.
I did 4 track days on my 2005 fireblade and was hooked. I started circuit racing in 2006 and went to road racing shortly afterwards.
If this is for track DO NOT choose a Benelli 900...and I'd say the same for the F4 although I've never owned one of them
They were great, exotic bikes in their day but as a track mule there are far cheaper, more reliable and easier to fix bikes from the Japs
I'm talking from experience having owned and tracked A Benelli Tornado Tre. I've owned a naked MV too
They were great, exotic bikes in their day but as a track mule there are far cheaper, more reliable and easier to fix bikes from the Japs
I'm talking from experience having owned and tracked A Benelli Tornado Tre. I've owned a naked MV too
Nitromedes said:
A GSXR750 of that age is exactly the same size as the 600, they are pretty cramped and as you've said you are a big bloke they may not be the best option.
Thank you chaps for the input, do keep it coming.
Noted re the Benelli, thanks for the first hand experience, it's a nice thought but I'm sure it would soon wear thin, I've spent time on their forums and looked at plenty and there are so many bad ones about. I'm happy with Aprilia parts supply, I've had no problems getting parts and there are plenty in breakers etc. They seem particularly good value at the moment and all Ohlins shod already.
The F4 is probably too dear, I do like the fact that they would be so easy to work on, Tamburini was a genius like that combining form with function but that would double the budget at least.
Thanks also for the advice on the later GSXR, for me it comes back to 3 bikes then really; GSXR 750 SRAD, Kawasaki ZXR/ZX7R and an RSVR.
The best thing for me to do is probably book a day at Ron Haslam or similar and see how I get on with a bike on track in the first place and go from there before getting too carried away. I have Lydden circuit on my doorstep which makes trackdays quite accessible on a regular basis.
Cheers again
Noted re the Benelli, thanks for the first hand experience, it's a nice thought but I'm sure it would soon wear thin, I've spent time on their forums and looked at plenty and there are so many bad ones about. I'm happy with Aprilia parts supply, I've had no problems getting parts and there are plenty in breakers etc. They seem particularly good value at the moment and all Ohlins shod already.
The F4 is probably too dear, I do like the fact that they would be so easy to work on, Tamburini was a genius like that combining form with function but that would double the budget at least.
Thanks also for the advice on the later GSXR, for me it comes back to 3 bikes then really; GSXR 750 SRAD, Kawasaki ZXR/ZX7R and an RSVR.
The best thing for me to do is probably book a day at Ron Haslam or similar and see how I get on with a bike on track in the first place and go from there before getting too carried away. I have Lydden circuit on my doorstep which makes trackdays quite accessible on a regular basis.
Cheers again
What do you class as tall, or too tall in this instance?
I'm only 5'11". I wouldn't consider that tall per se, fairly average maybe a touch above (just Googled it, average height for a man is 5'9"! and weight 83.6kg (UK) but a lot of modern bikes I find are too small and you end up sat on top rather than in, which is what I was used to with bikes bitd and something I'm far more comfortable with tbh.
I'm only 5'11". I wouldn't consider that tall per se, fairly average maybe a touch above (just Googled it, average height for a man is 5'9"! and weight 83.6kg (UK) but a lot of modern bikes I find are too small and you end up sat on top rather than in, which is what I was used to with bikes bitd and something I'm far more comfortable with tbh.
Nitromedes said:
What do you class as tall, or too tall in this instance?
I'm only 5'11". I wouldn't consider that tall per se, fairly average maybe a touch above (just Googled it, average height for a man is 5'9"! and weight 83.6kg (UK) but a lot of modern bikes I find are too small and you end up sat on top rather than in, which is what I was used to with bikes bitd and something I'm far more comfortable with tbh.
It's slightly off topic, but 84kg is a depressing figure if true because that means most blokes are significantly overweight. Those statistics don't affect the design of sportsbikes though, they're all about performance.I'm only 5'11". I wouldn't consider that tall per se, fairly average maybe a touch above (just Googled it, average height for a man is 5'9"! and weight 83.6kg (UK) but a lot of modern bikes I find are too small and you end up sat on top rather than in, which is what I was used to with bikes bitd and something I'm far more comfortable with tbh.
Personally at 5'10", found the GSXR-750 quite uncomfortable (as said above, it is a 600 frame), and I'm neither especially heavy nor especially tall. It does however come with three position adjustable footrests as standard. I found this marginally helpful with existing injuries, but full adjustable rear sets ( and clip ons) are obviously better.
Not wishing to offend, but a spade is a spade, and at 105kg and 5'11" you're obese, so you'll need to see what you feel comfortable on. Sportsbikes aren't built with rider ergonomics in mind, even for the healthiest of us. Personally I find them too hard going, but I'm not really a "trackday" person.
Just a thought, a track bike doesn't have to have clip ons, plenty out there use stuff like Street Triples, Tuono's and the like, If I buy a track bike next year like I'm planning it'll have proper handlebars and be (relatively) comfortable, I rented a GSXR600 last year and I was horrendously uncomfortable after a couple of sessions and it did affect my enjoyment of the day somewhat as I was in too much pain to complete some of the sessions (I have old injuries).
If you are not obsessed by laptimes you can have a lot more fun on a comfy bike, my Z1000SX was great on track as I got off it at the end of the day with no real aches and pains, I couldn't walk the following day as the effort of muscling 240kgs of it took its toll on my leg muscles but I felt in better shape than I did after getting off the GSXR.
If you are not obsessed by laptimes you can have a lot more fun on a comfy bike, my Z1000SX was great on track as I got off it at the end of the day with no real aches and pains, I couldn't walk the following day as the effort of muscling 240kgs of it took its toll on my leg muscles but I felt in better shape than I did after getting off the GSXR.
Lol, feelings Professor. I'm just built like Jason Momoa or something 
(Interesting to note that average US male weight is 90kg ) I may need to therefore identify as an American!
I've tried sitting on an SRAD 98ish vintage and found it very comfortable. I own a '93 ZXR750 so no issues with that either (it's mint so I won't be tracking this one). I've had a sit on an F4 and from what I remember it was okay, the F3 for example was too narrow for my liking. I have 2 Aprilia's both with the Rotax V-twin so am familiar with them and again the RSV fits me well size wise.
In terms of preference, I'm quite open minded to all 3 of those (Suzi/Kawa/RSV). The Aprilia strikes me as best value because I won't need to spend much recommissioning stuff through age or indeed upgrading brakes/suspension and is the only litre bike here. I'm very tempted with a ZXR or ZX7 as they've always been an all time favourite of mine so would be a pleasurable thing to track and the Suzuki is something different to what I already have from the 750 era and would look the nuts with a lucky strike race fairing given how the RGV500 was my favourite GP bike BITD
At the end of the day, any of these will need investing in, with time as much as anything else, so if I'm fond of it, it will make that side all that bit easier. I'm not looking for outright fastest lap times (of course that would be nice), but mainly I'd like to improve my riding and skill level and have fun doing so. I enjoy working on and prepping the bikes, I'd probably prefer to take a virgin bike and spend the time doing it all myself rather than buying one ready done. I know it's not the cheapest way but that said, a ready done bike has unknown longevity and history to it and the quality of prep will vary. It would give me greater confidence in the bike doing the work myself and taking pride in the standard its prepped to.
(Interesting to note that average US male weight is 90kg ) I may need to therefore identify as an American!I've tried sitting on an SRAD 98ish vintage and found it very comfortable. I own a '93 ZXR750 so no issues with that either (it's mint so I won't be tracking this one). I've had a sit on an F4 and from what I remember it was okay, the F3 for example was too narrow for my liking. I have 2 Aprilia's both with the Rotax V-twin so am familiar with them and again the RSV fits me well size wise.
In terms of preference, I'm quite open minded to all 3 of those (Suzi/Kawa/RSV). The Aprilia strikes me as best value because I won't need to spend much recommissioning stuff through age or indeed upgrading brakes/suspension and is the only litre bike here. I'm very tempted with a ZXR or ZX7 as they've always been an all time favourite of mine so would be a pleasurable thing to track and the Suzuki is something different to what I already have from the 750 era and would look the nuts with a lucky strike race fairing given how the RGV500 was my favourite GP bike BITD
At the end of the day, any of these will need investing in, with time as much as anything else, so if I'm fond of it, it will make that side all that bit easier. I'm not looking for outright fastest lap times (of course that would be nice), but mainly I'd like to improve my riding and skill level and have fun doing so. I enjoy working on and prepping the bikes, I'd probably prefer to take a virgin bike and spend the time doing it all myself rather than buying one ready done. I know it's not the cheapest way but that said, a ready done bike has unknown longevity and history to it and the quality of prep will vary. It would give me greater confidence in the bike doing the work myself and taking pride in the standard its prepped to.
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