Barack Obama says ‘politically woke’ should get over themsel

[rodericb]

Barack Obama says ‘politically woke’ should get over themselves: https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/barac...

Same story, different outlet: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50239261

This is interesting. Woke is (I believe) more a "left" thing and many people took great delight in covfefe and hamberders, after losing the un-losable election. Will the democrats learn this time 'round?

[Countdown]

He's got a point.

[R Mutt]

Valid especially from the perspective that wokeness largely revolves around enforcing your moral superiority by calling out others.

[Countdown]

R Mutt said:

Valid especially from the perspective that wokeness largely revolves around enforcing your moral superiority by calling out others.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling out others. Dickish behaviour deserves to be called out.

[Mark Benson]

Countdown said:

R Mutt said:

Valid especially from the perspective that wokeness largely revolves around enforcing your moral superiority by calling out others.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling out others. Dickish behaviour deserves to be called out.

True, but in general (and especially online) the 'woke' like to invent new and ever more complex transgressions seemingly for the purpose of being able to assert their superiority over those that fall foul.

It's just a religion under a different name, with 'wokeness' replacing piety. Pathetic really.

Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 31st October 11:26

[Digga]

Countdown said:

He's got a point.

More than that. It's probably one of the (generally and broadly) most useful speeches he's ever made. Michelle said some interesting things too, regarding "white flight".

[R Mutt]

Countdown said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling out others. Dickish behaviour deserves to be called out.

I'm sure the language of how not to be a dick is pretty universal but you can't call out the unwoke any more than you can call out a foreigner for not understanding your culture whereas the woke make their own rules so you will always lose.

[amusingduck]

I'd rather they get woke to China, rather than getting over themselves.

[KarlMac]

R Mutt said:

Valid especially from the perspective that wokeness largely revolves around enforcing your moral superiority by calling out others.

I've been reading up on (I think it was) kierkegaard's theory that placing disadvantaged groups on a pedestal (in this context he was referring to refugees) is dumb. The sad truth is that minorities and disadvantaged groups have had to live through experiences that will almost certainly make them worse human beings. Taking the 'woke' stance that we should check our privilege and protect these groups is totally the wrong way to approach the issue.

Hopefully 'Woke' and Cancel Culture are just a fashionable passing fad.

[Fittster]

Don't understand the point he's making.

If someone is being racist should they not be pulled up on their views?

If someone has previously posted homophobic views online, should they be overlooked because they happened in the past?

[Digga]

amusingduck said:

I'd rather they get woke to China, rather than getting over themselves.

Agreed.

If the XR crash test dummies really wanted to go somewhere and make a worthwhile impact (and GTF out of our hair) then that's it.

[Countdown]

KarlMac said:

The sad truth is that minorities and disadvantaged groups have had to live through experiences that will almost certainly make them worse human beings.

How does being a minority or disadvantaged make somebody a worse human being?

[amusingduck]

Digga said:

amusingduck said:

I'd rather they get woke to China, rather than getting over themselves.

Agreed.

If the XR crash test dummies really wanted to go somewhere and make a worthwhile impact (and GTF out of our hair) then that's it.

XR are a good example. I was thinking along the lines of the corporations who pander to western wokeness whilst stuffing their pockets with dirty China money. I wonder how that'll pan out. Western values vs Chinese big money. I'm not sure western values are going to win!!

[Sticks.]

Fittster said:

Don't understand the point he's making.

If someone is being racist should they not be pulled up on their views?

If someone has previously posted homophobic views online, should they be overlooked because they happened in the past?

I took his point to be that a) that's all people do and it won't change things. And b) that people are not all good or all bad - 'binary' thinking.


Eta, all some people do.....

Edited by Sticks. on Thursday 31st October 11:58

[R Mutt]

Countdown said:

KarlMac said:

The sad truth is that minorities and disadvantaged groups have had to live through experiences that will almost certainly make them worse human beings.

How does being a minority or disadvantaged make somebody a worse human being?

Probably through just trying to survive rather then dedicating yourself to the plight of others and targeting those who may through a non compliant Tweet potentially offend said group.

The privilege here, is ironically the one whereby you are in the position to focus on those worse off. A very middle class trait.

[Countdown]

R Mutt said:

Countdown said:

KarlMac said:

The sad truth is that minorities and disadvantaged groups have had to live through experiences that will almost certainly make them worse human beings.

How does being a minority or disadvantaged make somebody a worse human being?

Probably through just trying to survive rather then dedicating yourself to the plight of others and targeting those who may through a non compliant Tweet potentially offend said group.

The privilege here, is ironically the one whereby you are in the position to focus on those worse off. A very middle class trait.

Perhaps struggling to survive makes you more compassionate and understanding towards others going through difficulties? The fact that, as a minority or a disadvantaged person, other people may have behaved abominable towards "you" doesn't automatically make "you" a worse person.

[R Mutt]

Countdown said:

R Mutt said:

Countdown said:

KarlMac said:

The sad truth is that minorities and disadvantaged groups have had to live through experiences that will almost certainly make them worse human beings.

How does being a minority or disadvantaged make somebody a worse human being?

Probably through just trying to survive rather then dedicating yourself to the plight of others and targeting those who may through a non compliant Tweet potentially offend said group.

The privilege here, is ironically the one whereby you are in the position to focus on those worse off. A very middle class trait.

Perhaps struggling to survive makes you more compassionate and understanding towards others going through difficulties? The fact that, as a minority or a disadvantaged person, other people may have behaved abominable towards "you" doesn't automatically make "you" a worse person.

They're only 'bad' people in terms of their propensity to commit unwoke faux-pas or 'microagressions' which don't really register if you're used to actual aggression, like being bombed. I think we're all empathetic to a point, which is why most normal people don't have time for all this safe space talk.

In short a Syrian refugee doesn't give a fk about your gender pronouns.

Edited by R Mutt on Thursday 31st October 12:47

[grumbledoak]

This is just part of the run up to the next election. It cost the Democrats last time, and they've learned nothing.

[JagLover]

Fittster said:

Don't understand the point he's making.

If someone is being racist should they not be pulled up on their views?

If someone has previously posted homophobic views online, should they be overlooked because they happened in the past?

His point seems to be more that someone shouldn't be called racist and homophobic simply because they do not follow the latest wording or be aware of all the latest issues. Also that people are neither wholly good or bad and they might have some old fashioned views in some areas but that doesn't mean they need to frantically denounced.

The big problem that I think that left wing politicians/media have as a result of "woke" culture is that the lose sight of how most of the population think. They talk in an echo chamber and their assumptions diverge from the rest of the population to the extent that some with what would be considered liberal views a few decades ago suddenly find themselves "no platformed" and/or denounced as "alt-right" by the woke. With their philosophy of you are either with us on all aspects or against us they drive away many potential sympathises.

[Kawasicki]

Political correctness and the woke have hollowed out the centre of politics.