Wheel / suspension nuts and bolts fallen out....

[sausage9]

Hi guys...

Serious issue...

Just turned into driveway and wheel went....

I have noticed the top bolt attaching the wheel to the suspension shaft has gone and the lower bolt isn't held in place by a nut.... wheel is at an angle.

I had work done on my MOT 8 months ago on the following:

1. Front left stabiliser link renewed.

2. Front left suspension strut mount renewed.

3. Front left drive shaft flange oil seal.

Do you guys know if any of this work would have meant that these nuts and bolts that are missing would have been removed?

I cannot see any corrosion that has caused these nuts and bolts to fall out and even if there was....surely that should have been spotted and fixed in the MOT as well.

Nobody else has worked on this area of the car since the MOT 8 months ago.

Surely the MOT centre unscrewed these bolts and didn't screw them up properly again when putting it back together....how else would these bolts just fall out/off. I have not hit anything and even if I did I am not sure what kind of impact I'd have to have for nuts to unscrew themselves.

Cheers guys.

[Jakg]

Yes, those bolts probably would have had to come out to do the work.

But 8 months is a very long time.

[stevieturbo]

Very probably yes it is related.

However as said, 8 months is a bit long to be pointing fingers and getting anywhere with it.

[Oldandslow]

Yeah. Items 2 and 3 would likely require the strut removed. I'd bet the bolts weren't tightened up fully. But as has been said 8 months is a long time. You could still go back to them and see what they say. They may be reluctant to help (from their point of view anything could have been done to the car since they touched it) but you never know. Either way it'll help you decide whether you use them again. Don't forget that even the best mechanics can have a bad day.

Also go buy a lottery ticket and thank your lucky stars it happened when it did.

[steveo3002]

id hazard a guess it rattled and clonked like hell way before it fell out

[Dont like rolls]

Re using knackered old Nylocs and/or not tightening it up ?

Best that can happen is visit the guy who did it and show him, he may learn a bit if shocked.

[Coilspring]

Corrosion, and lack of it, on the bottom bolt suggests that has not been exposed for 8 months.

And that would have been rattling and knocking, and had vague steering/turning way before it got to that stage.

Sorry, but it doesn't add up to me.

[Oldandslow]

Has there been anything else done? Like an alignment. That CV joint cover looks shiny.

[sausage9]

Coilspring said:

Corrosion, and lack of it, on the bottom bolt suggests that has not been exposed for 8 months.

And that would have been rattling and knocking, and had vague steering/turning way before it got to that stage.

Sorry, but it doesn't add up to me.

What do you think could have happend to cause the nuts to go missing and one of the bolts to fall out?

It is an interesting point you raise about the bolt still in place without a nut. It's been 8 months which have mostly been summer months, I don't drive a lot of miles either, so these are possible reasons why there's not much corrosion there, though....

The bolt that I found on the road has fairly even corrosion throughout or at least doesn't have the shine to it like the one still in place. (photo attached).




Some people I have heard from say that the nuts may have not been put on at all and could have been held in place securely by the pressure placed upon them. If so, then no knocking about as there's no nuts there to knock against.


The garage is currently looking into what may have gone wrong.....so maybe they'll come up with an idea for what may have happend.


As far as I'd hazard a guess is the nuts were not put on properly or were not put on at all. I can't understand how something else possibly in the suspension has failed leading to 2 nuts shooting off their bolts, also there is no damage to the bolts.

[227bhp]

If that bolt matches the other then it's highly likely that's where it came from. It shows all the signs of being loose whilst being driven around, although as previously pointed out how the heck you didn't notice it is difficult to comprehend.
It's between you and the garage that did the job, i'm not sure what you expect some bloke on a forum to do about it.

[Coilspring]

sausage9 said:

What do you think could have happend to cause the nuts to go missing and one of the bolts to fall out?

It is an interesting point you raise about the bolt still in place without a nut. It's been 8 months which have mostly been summer months, I don't drive a lot of miles either, so these are possible reasons why there's not much corrosion there, though....

The bolt that I found on the road has fairly even corrosion throughout or at least doesn't have the shine to it like the one still in place. (photo attached).




Some people I have heard from say that the nuts may have not been put on at all and could have been held in place securely by the pressure placed upon them. If so, then no knocking about as there's no nuts there to knock against.


The garage is currently looking into what may have gone wrong.....so maybe they'll come up with an idea for what may have happend.


As far as I'd hazard a guess is the nuts were not put on properly or were not put on at all. I can't understand how something else possibly in the suspension has failed leading to 2 nuts shooting off their bolts, also there is no damage to the bolts.

Lets look at the 2 bolts in question.

The top 1, that has "fallen out" causing the wheel to topple. No obvious evidence of a nut being on it ( doesn't mean it wasn't fitted). But the threads look flattened. Possibly caused by the bolt chattering in the holes. Also the bolt looks like it has flattened at the top of the threads from chattering. But the holes it was in look lightly rusty. Any bolt chattering in there would have removed some if not all of that rust where metal to metal contact was made. That bolt either came loose and out quickly, which does not tie in with 8 months since touched. Or it came out slowly (more likely) and the suspension leg would have been loose for ages, with consequent poor steering, vagueness and lots of noise, even some loud sudden clunks.

The bottom bolt looks like it has had a nut on it for ages, in the correct place. No evidence or reason why this would have just suddenly disappeared. 8 months exposure would not have left such an extreme difference on that bolt. In my opinion of course.

You mention it would be corrected, or removed at the MOT, but nothing is allowed to be removed or replaced in an MOT, so that would not happen. Possibly a fail, a repair and then a retest, but if so would have been checked for security at the retest.

If you have given the whole full story, then it is a very unusual set of circumstances.

But in my opinion, there is some information missing. It doesn't add up to me.

[Coilspring]

sausage9 said:

The bolt that I found on the road has fairly even corrosion throughout or at least doesn't have the shine to it like the one still in place. (photo attached).




Some people I have heard from say that the nuts may have not been put on at all and could have been held in place securely by the pressure placed upon them. If so, then no knocking about as there's no nuts there to knock against.

The knocking would not be against the nut (if 1 was fitted) but would be the bolt in the holes, in effect up and down movement of the bolt, which would flatten the thread. Those threads could not have flattened like that without noise/warning.

It is possible no nut was on that bolt, but 8 months of driving would have resulted in some symptoms that should have been checked.

Ignoring noises/symptoms is possibly the issue here. If it was a garage fault for no/loose nuts, it should have gone back for investigation.

[sausage9]

227bhp said:

If that bolt matches the other then it's highly likely that's where it came from. It shows all the signs of being loose whilst being driven around, although as previously pointed out how the heck you didn't notice it is difficult to comprehend.
It's between you and the garage that did the job, i'm not sure what you expect some bloke on a forum to do about it.

I expect some bloke from this forum to come round and fix it whilst he sings me a few Michael Jackson classics.


It's just people's opinions about what could have happend, as I don't know I am not a mechanic or car enthusiast. Asking about this has been great, I have received some excellent advice, so not sure what you are complaining about.

[sausage9]

Coilspring said:

Lets look at the 2 bolts in question.

The top 1, that has "fallen out" causing the wheel to topple. No obvious evidence of a nut being on it ( doesn't mean it wasn't fitted). But the threads look flattened. Possibly caused by the bolt chattering in the holes. Also the bolt looks like it has flattened at the top of the threads from chattering. But the holes it was in look lightly rusty. Any bolt chattering in there would have removed some if not all of that rust where metal to metal contact was made. That bolt either came loose and out quickly, which does not tie in with 8 months since touched. Or it came out slowly (more likely) and the suspension leg would have been loose for ages, with consequent poor steering, vagueness and lots of noise, even some loud sudden clunks.

The bottom bolt looks like it has had a nut on it for ages, in the correct place. No evidence or reason why this would have just suddenly disappeared. 8 months exposure would not have left such an extreme difference on that bolt. In my opinion of course.

You mention it would be corrected, or removed at the MOT, but nothing is allowed to be removed or replaced in an MOT, so that would not happen. Possibly a fail, a repair and then a retest, but if so would have been checked for security at the retest.

If you have given the whole full story, then it is a very unusual set of circumstances.

But in my opinion, there is some information missing. It doesn't add up to me.

Yes, I mean that the MOT failed due to suspension parts needing to be replaced. Therefore the wheel needed to be detached from the suspension arm in order to replace these parts. This wheel has not been taken off since this work was done in March. This garage was the last to do any work on this area and is the only garage I have been to and always go to and have been loyal to for 7 years. I even went to this same garage for engine problems 3 months ago.

In terms of focusing on the 8 month period, it makes more sense to focus on mileage. I live and work in the same town (about 1 mile to work and 1 mile back on an average day) max speed reached is 40mph and only briefly. I don't think I have even gone over 45mph in the past 8 months. I would assume that if I was driving the 12 miles to work and the 12 miles back from work that I was doing 5 years+ ago, then this issue with the bolt slipping out would have happend much much sooner.

This all said...

The garage took my car back in for inspection. I left it with them. 4 hours later they call me saying they did not find an issue as to what could have caused this and are confused as to what has happend, they don't know why the nuts aren't there, maybe they do have a good idea why they aren't there, but if they were to admit that they may have not been screwed on properly, or at all, then that could be pretty severe for them if I was to report it to higher management. Could result in a couple of sackings for the mechanic and the manager.

....They have done the right thing either way. They have put the drive shaft back in place, resealed it, topped up the gear box oil and bolted the wheel back on. All 'under warranty'.

The only thing that's logical is that the nuts were either never put on the bolts or they weren't screwed on properly and have unscrewed themselves. Also the bolts must have been tight in their slots so not to cause any noticeable issues whilst driving. You can see from the photo - the bolt that remains in its slot is snug fully inside the slot and no nut is present. So not sure why there would be noises or rattling around if the bolt is set solid even without the nut being there.

I am not sure there can be any other explanation. And no, I have not taken the nuts off myself or got some dodgy unqualified mechanic to take my wheel off for me for any reason then driven the car, then signed up to a few forums to ask for opinions on what could have gone wrong and what people advise.


Here...you can see the lower bolt is snug fully inside its slot, so why would it be rattling about if it's secure there without a nut being present?...

Edited by sausage9 on Wednesday 6th November 17:23

[tapkaJohnD]

Sausage,
Two miles a day, to and from work? I know this is "Piston Heads" but please, consider walking or biking!
If you have some disability, of course disregard this, but for the majority a quarter hour walking a day brings real health benefits!
See: https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/active10/home

John

[GreenV8S]

Seems to me that the nuts were either not fitted or not tightened. It seems entirely possible for the bolts to stay in place indefinitely or to work themselves out within minutes, depending on the vibration and loads that joint experiences. It also seems entirely possible that the bolt alone would hold the parts in place without any significant symptoms as long as it was present. It seems extremely lucky that it picked the perfect time to fail. That could have been nasty if it had gone at speed.

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Most likely the nuts were never done up fully 8 months ago, and over time they have come loose. Once one loosens off the other will do the same fairly rapidly, up until the point where one of the bolts has worked it's way out.

[sausage9]

tapkaJohnD said:

Sausage,
Two miles a day, to and from work? I know this is "Piston Heads" but please, consider walking or biking!
If you have some disability, of course disregard this, but for the majority a quarter hour walking a day brings real health benefits!
See: https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/active10/home

John

This post is hilarious............ why.....


Because my job involves walking ~10miles a day. I do far far more than 15 minutes of walking a day. I walk too much that it's unhealthy.