Looking for an M14 Nut that's 17mm flat to flat
Discussion
I'm on the hunt for a couple of nuts, they're really slim line 'half nuts' with barely any meat on them and the external dimensions are important because they recess into another part.
Thread is M14x1.5 and it needs to suit a 17mm spanner/socket. Oh, and it needs to be 6.5mm deep (with probably a +/- 2mm tolerance)
Any ideas of where to search for this? Been to my local engineering fixings shop first thing this morning and this is the first time they've failed me!
Thread is M14x1.5 and it needs to suit a 17mm spanner/socket. Oh, and it needs to be 6.5mm deep (with probably a +/- 2mm tolerance)
Any ideas of where to search for this? Been to my local engineering fixings shop first thing this morning and this is the first time they've failed me!
tapkaJohnD said:
You need:
An M14 nut
A Vice
A hacksaw
A file
And a some time to do the work
Voila!
John
That won't work as he said it needs to be 17 A/F. I'd buy an M10 Half nut and an M14x1.5 tap. All you need to do then is drill and tap out the nut, you'll lose 1mm on the thickness but I'm sure you can live with that.An M14 nut
A Vice
A hacksaw
A file
And a some time to do the work
Voila!
John
jackofall84 said:
That won't work as he said it needs to be 17 A/F. I'd buy an M10 Half nut and an M14x1.5 tap. All you need to do then is drill and tap out the nut, you'll lose 1mm on the thickness but I'm sure you can live with that.
Yep that's the option I'm considering.After considerable searching I eventually found the part number for this nut (from Renault) and it's listed as M14x1. I know for certain that the thread is not M14x1 and is instead M14x1.5 but I've ordered a couple anyway in the hope that the parts catalogue is a misprint.
If this fails and the items arrives with the wrong pitch, I might be boring out an M10 half nut...
It's clearly not a significantly load bearing item because it's so damn flimsy - barely any meat on it as you can imagine to get the "spanner size" so small.... so I can probably afford a bodge to a certain degree.
Fonzey said:
Yep that's the option I'm considering.
After considerable searching I eventually found the part number for this nut (from Renault) and it's listed as M14x1. I know for certain that the thread is not M14x1 and is instead M14x1.5 but I've ordered a couple anyway in the hope that the parts catalogue is a misprint.
If this fails and the items arrives with the wrong pitch, I might be boring out an M10 half nut...
It's clearly not a significantly load bearing item because it's so damn flimsy - barely any meat on it as you can imagine to get the "spanner size" so small.... so I can probably afford a bodge to a certain degree.
It's always baffled me why the automotive industry use so many bespoke fixings, surely it would be so much more cost effective to just use ISO sizes.After considerable searching I eventually found the part number for this nut (from Renault) and it's listed as M14x1. I know for certain that the thread is not M14x1 and is instead M14x1.5 but I've ordered a couple anyway in the hope that the parts catalogue is a misprint.
If this fails and the items arrives with the wrong pitch, I might be boring out an M10 half nut...
It's clearly not a significantly load bearing item because it's so damn flimsy - barely any meat on it as you can imagine to get the "spanner size" so small.... so I can probably afford a bodge to a certain degree.
jackofall84 said:
Fonzey said:
Yep that's the option I'm considering.
After considerable searching I eventually found the part number for this nut (from Renault) and it's listed as M14x1. I know for certain that the thread is not M14x1 and is instead M14x1.5 but I've ordered a couple anyway in the hope that the parts catalogue is a misprint.
If this fails and the items arrives with the wrong pitch, I might be boring out an M10 half nut...
It's clearly not a significantly load bearing item because it's so damn flimsy - barely any meat on it as you can imagine to get the "spanner size" so small.... so I can probably afford a bodge to a certain degree.
It's always baffled me why the automotive industry use so many bespoke fixings, surely it would be so much more cost effective to just use ISO sizes.After considerable searching I eventually found the part number for this nut (from Renault) and it's listed as M14x1. I know for certain that the thread is not M14x1 and is instead M14x1.5 but I've ordered a couple anyway in the hope that the parts catalogue is a misprint.
If this fails and the items arrives with the wrong pitch, I might be boring out an M10 half nut...
It's clearly not a significantly load bearing item because it's so damn flimsy - barely any meat on it as you can imagine to get the "spanner size" so small.... so I can probably afford a bodge to a certain degree.
Apparently one of the reasons autkmotove use specials, odd sizes is it is less likely they will get mixed with something else, and have incorrect tracability/materials etc.
Essentially they are unique so are made specially and therefore less likely to get your nut mixed with any old nut somewhere down the line.
Thats what one of the suppliers was telling me, bearings too.
Eta, although this one sounds like a cheap one!!
Edited by Glade on Monday 11th November 21:45
LarJammer said:
Nothing that matches, thanks anyway though.I've come to the conclusion that Renault must turn these nuts in house or something. Can't find anything anywhere near close to a match and I've trawled for hours.
It's so slim, it's less of a nut and more of a threaded pipe cross-section that's had some flats filed onto it...
Depending on materials to hand and machine tools available, there's a number of ways you could achieve this:
1. The simplest and what OP has already done - Buy the part and hope it's correct
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
3. Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out.
4. Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out.
There may be more ways than this as well.
1. The simplest and what OP has already done - Buy the part and hope it's correct
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
3. Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out.
4. Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out.
There may be more ways than this as well.
jackofall84 said:
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
I think this is the only one I can do reasonably with home/DIY tooling so this will be my second option.Still awaiting the ones I ordered from Renault, get a nasty feeling they may be on back order, either that or somewhere in France there's an engineer going through this list:
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
3. Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out.
4. Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out.
Fonzey said:
I think this is the only one I can do reasonably with home/DIY tooling so this will be my second option.
Still awaiting the ones I ordered from Renault, get a nasty feeling they may be on back order, either that or somewhere in France there's an engineer going through this list:
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
3. Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out.
4. Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out.
We haven't broached the idea of casting the nut and adding the thread after or 3D printing in metal Still awaiting the ones I ordered from Renault, get a nasty feeling they may be on back order, either that or somewhere in France there's an engineer going through this list:
2. Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out
3. Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out.
4. Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out.
Of course depending on which industry you work in will also dictate which method you use:
1 - Automotive - Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out - as this is the cheapest (about 30 mins labour and £2 for the nuts) - Be told by your boss it's too expensive and get the price of the nuts down and bring labour time down to 15 mins.
2 - Military - Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out. A more expensive way of achieving the above with no benefit. (about £10 for the bar and 30 mins labour)
3 - Aerospace - Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out. As an even more expensive way to achieve the above. (About £100)
4 - Oil and Gas - Buy in a specific material only available from unicorns hooves as governed by the 'code', pay the supplier of said material even more for a specific certificate to prove it comes from said unicorn, Machine/mill the flats onto the material, then don't drill or tap out, but bore out the internal diameter to the tightest tolerance available in a Zeus book and machine cut in the thread. Then x-ray it to ensure the grain structure is correct and have an external body come and witness the machinist stamp on the certificate number onto one of the flats. Only to find the machinist has lost the material certificate, so have another external body come and give the Nut a material appraisal To prove it is indeed from the unicorn required to meet the EU directive. Total cost £3268.00
jackofall84 said:
We haven't broached the idea of casting the nut and adding the thread after or 3D printing in metal
Of course depending on which industry you work in will also dictate which method you use:
1 - Automotive - Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out - as this is the cheapest (about 30 mins labour and £2 for the nuts) - Be told by your boss it's too expensive and get the price of the nuts down and bring labour time down to 15 mins.
2 - Military - Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out. A more expensive way of achieving the above with no benefit. (about £10 for the bar and 30 mins labour)
3 - Aerospace - Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out. As an even more expensive way to achieve the above. (About £100)
4 - Oil and Gas - Buy in a specific material only available from unicorns hooves as governed by the 'code', pay the supplier of said material even more for a specific certificate to prove it comes from said unicorn, Machine/mill the flats onto the material, then don't drill or tap out, but bore out the internal diameter to the tightest tolerance available in a Zeus book and machine cut in the thread. Then x-ray it to ensure the grain structure is correct and have an external body come and witness the machinist stamp on the certificate number onto one of the flats. Only to find the machinist has lost the material certificate, so have another external body come and give the Nut a material appraisal To prove it is indeed from the unicorn required to meet the EU directive. Total cost £3268.00
That is all worrying close to the truth! Of course depending on which industry you work in will also dictate which method you use:
1 - Automotive - Buy some M10 half nuts and drill and tap out - as this is the cheapest (about 30 mins labour and £2 for the nuts) - Be told by your boss it's too expensive and get the price of the nuts down and bring labour time down to 15 mins.
2 - Military - Get some 17mm Hex bar, cut off the correct length and drill and tap out. A more expensive way of achieving the above with no benefit. (about £10 for the bar and 30 mins labour)
3 - Aerospace - Get some Ø20mm round, machine down to Ø19.6mm and cut off correct length, file flat on 2 edges to 17 A/F and drill and tap out. As an even more expensive way to achieve the above. (About £100)
4 - Oil and Gas - Buy in a specific material only available from unicorns hooves as governed by the 'code', pay the supplier of said material even more for a specific certificate to prove it comes from said unicorn, Machine/mill the flats onto the material, then don't drill or tap out, but bore out the internal diameter to the tightest tolerance available in a Zeus book and machine cut in the thread. Then x-ray it to ensure the grain structure is correct and have an external body come and witness the machinist stamp on the certificate number onto one of the flats. Only to find the machinist has lost the material certificate, so have another external body come and give the Nut a material appraisal To prove it is indeed from the unicorn required to meet the EU directive. Total cost £3268.00
Then leave it to rust in the North Sea for 25 years until somebody notices it looks brown, then add it to a maintenance report, which eventually starts the tender process onshore to get a new one. Add it to the maintenance budget for 2019, then bump it to 2020, then 2021, then 2022, then notice it has now completely failed. Ask around to see if anyone can find a drawing to show what it was for in the first place. Nobody can, but nobody is willing to say it doesn't matter either. Put out an urgent purchase order for a new one, single-sourced from whoever supplied the last one, only they've gone bust when the oil price tanked. Call round Aberdeen machine shops until somebody has the correct grade of unicorn hoof in stock and some spare CNC machine time, and can get one made and onto a helicopter this afternoon. Then find a guy to fit it and get him on the same helicopter. Total cost £15,589.
CrossMember said:
Then leave it to rust in the North Sea for 25 years until somebody notices it looks brown, then add it to a maintenance report, which eventually starts the tender process onshore to get a new one. Add it to the maintenance budget for 2019, then bump it to 2020, then 2021, then 2022, then notice it has now completely failed. Ask around to see if anyone can find a drawing to show what it was for in the first place. Nobody can, but nobody is willing to say it doesn't matter either. Put out an urgent purchase order for a new one, single-sourced from whoever supplied the last one, only they've gone bust when the oil price tanked. Call round Aberdeen machine shops until somebody has the correct grade of unicorn hoof in stock and some spare CNC machine time, and can get one made and onto a helicopter this afternoon. Then find a guy to fit it and get him on the same helicopter. Total cost £15,589.
This has got me laughing out loud, worryingly because it's so true! I've had word that my Renault items will be shipped today.
If they come with the wrong thread/pitch as a fear, I've got a shopping basket ready to go with:
Pillar Drill
Bench mounted belt sander/grinder combo
M14x1.5 tap
Full garage dust extraction system
...but on a serious note, I've had a very kind offer from a PH'er of getting some knocked up and posted to me. Can't ask more than that!
If they come with the wrong thread/pitch as a fear, I've got a shopping basket ready to go with:
Pillar Drill
Bench mounted belt sander/grinder combo
M14x1.5 tap
Full garage dust extraction system
...but on a serious note, I've had a very kind offer from a PH'er of getting some knocked up and posted to me. Can't ask more than that!
jackofall84 said:
Excellent result, you should email Renault to let them know the error.
Yeah, I should do... but the part is 23 years old so I'm guessing not enough people are bothered Just a quick shout-out to PH'er Spurry who got a bit busy in his workshop and knocked up a prototype to check he had the correct taps/etc for the job.
I'm a little disappointed that I won't be using this part, but seriously impressed with his assistance
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