2016 BMW X1 rejected. Litigation pending.
Discussion
In case anyone is foolishly thinking of buying a new-ish BMW, don't. They've majorly lost it with build and reliability.
Our DP agrees my wife's one is a rogue. Did you know BMW are bottom in the J D Power 2019 survey? https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough. Our 10th BMW over 33 years, and the last. Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far. Looking for top retail. Will sue if we can't agree.
See: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Shall we move back to Audi? Their reliability seems just as suspect. Wife likes the Q5 as an alternative, but how often will that be off the road. Need a quality badge SUV with reliability. What else is there which I may not have considered?
No, we won't drive a Peugeot.
Our DP agrees my wife's one is a rogue. Did you know BMW are bottom in the J D Power 2019 survey? https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough. Our 10th BMW over 33 years, and the last. Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far. Looking for top retail. Will sue if we can't agree.
See: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Shall we move back to Audi? Their reliability seems just as suspect. Wife likes the Q5 as an alternative, but how often will that be off the road. Need a quality badge SUV with reliability. What else is there which I may not have considered?
No, we won't drive a Peugeot.
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:06
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:07
DJMC said:
In case anyone is foolishly thinking of buying a new-ish BMW, don't. They've majorly lost it with build and reliability.
Our DP agrees my wife's one is a rogue. Did you know BMW are bottom in the J D Power 2019 survey? https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough. Our 10th BMW over 33 years, and the last. Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far. Looking for top retail. Will sue if we can't agree.
See: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Shall we move back to Audi? Their reliability seems just as suspect. Wife likes the Q5 as an alternative, but how often will that be off the road. Need a quality badge SUV with reliability. What else is there which I may not have considered?
No, we won't drive a Peugeot.
Interesting, I sold my 2017 X1 after 2 years 2 months and 44k miles. Our DP agrees my wife's one is a rogue. Did you know BMW are bottom in the J D Power 2019 survey? https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough. Our 10th BMW over 33 years, and the last. Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far. Looking for top retail. Will sue if we can't agree.
See: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Shall we move back to Audi? Their reliability seems just as suspect. Wife likes the Q5 as an alternative, but how often will that be off the road. Need a quality badge SUV with reliability. What else is there which I may not have considered?
No, we won't drive a Peugeot.
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:06
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:07
One day it flipped a limp mode, was barely drivable, for "swirl flap actuator motor"
Next day gearbox failed. Total loss of power.
Have to say BMW dealer / recovery were awesome, but when I read the technicians who fitted new gearbox had to adjust the first issue (SFAM) again, I thought stuff it and sold it.
Good luck with your case.
smashy said:
Do you not think its all about luck. ....
1.6m BMWs recalled in europe. Who's the lucky one?I think it's partly the diesel thing. EGR valve replaced after a year; EGR cooler (the recall part) a month ago; our diesel A3s both had EGR valve issues. This seems to me to be the part that, due to its function, is the weakest link. Fill a component with soot and ask it to clean it up. Hmmm...
Cars sometimes have problems shock horror.
My BMW has been the most reliable car I've owned so far, no major issues, other than a failed deflection pulley.
Even with track use -
Lexus , reliable maybe, my Dad had an IS220D and it was AWFUL. Had to have an engine rebuild, of course under warranty, Lexus service was great, but the car itself.............................then again he has a Jag now which has some niggles.
My BMW has been the most reliable car I've owned so far, no major issues, other than a failed deflection pulley.
Even with track use -
Lexus , reliable maybe, my Dad had an IS220D and it was AWFUL. Had to have an engine rebuild, of course under warranty, Lexus service was great, but the car itself.............................then again he has a Jag now which has some niggles.
DJMC said:
Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new
How did you manage to reject it after having had it so long? There must have been a catalogue of issues over that period to get away with that, surely. ETA: And how do you square this thread with this post of yours from June this year in an X1 buying advice thread:
DJMC said:
We have 2016 2.0d xDrive from new. Great for hauling kit and two dogs. 42mpg average. Fast 0-60 around 7 secs. Handles well enough (my other car's a Cayman 981).
Had other SUVs and estates in the past, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Honda, but this is the best so far.
Great in the snow a few years back. Not had it in too many fields but the part time AWD works well.
Our 10th BMW over 33 years.
I'm genuinely puzzled, not trying to be difficult just for the sake of it. Had other SUVs and estates in the past, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Honda, but this is the best so far.
Great in the snow a few years back. Not had it in too many fields but the part time AWD works well.
Our 10th BMW over 33 years.
Edited by BlackTails on Tuesday 12th November 10:33
Silenoz said:
If you want reliable, then Lexus.
Yep, go for Japanese if it's about reliability (but even then, not every Japanese make is reliable enough). And if it's from a BMW-esque brand, then it has to be Lexus.I don't have much faith in car makes these days. A 2018 Mercedes I tried had bluetooth problems from the outset (kept dropping the connection; my phone never drops connection from the £10 bluetooth speaker that I had to put in the car!) so it makes you wonder what else is waiting to go wrong.
Conclusion? Buy a cheap, older Japanese car because then some other chump has had to deal with the problems and if you're stuck with the car, you won't feel daft losing so much.
We ve got an X4, bar it having a tracker fitted before we bought it, causing a battery drain its done that its been asked of,
Even putting up with the abuse i chuck at it on the rare occasion i get to drive it.
However im in for "what nexts" as bar us having another X4 which i hate the new shape of, its either an X5, which for what we want will be over kill, or an SQ5.
Even putting up with the abuse i chuck at it on the rare occasion i get to drive it.
However im in for "what nexts" as bar us having another X4 which i hate the new shape of, its either an X5, which for what we want will be over kill, or an SQ5.
DJMC said:
In case anyone is foolishly thinking of buying a new-ish BMW, don't. They've majorly lost it with build and reliability.
Sadly they've chased the volume market, and volume means compromises......I wouldn't have a volume market BMW again, had lots of issues with my 135i.
I was very nervous about staying with BMW when I ordered its replacement, a X5.
But, the X5 has restored my faith, which while not wishing to tempt fate by saying it, has been pretty much faultless in the almost 3 years owned so far. Only issue was the steering wheel was replaced as one small bit of the stitching started to come loose.
I think the build quality is largely still there when you go up the range (and price tag) but at the lower end, its no better than Ford or any of the other mass volume makers, or even the smaller Audi's etc.
I know someone who has had endless issues with his Audi SQ5, so I don't think any of the 'prestige' name brands are immune from making a lemon.
DJMC said:
I
Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough.
Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far.
Looking for top retail.
Will sue if we can't agree.
Dealer won’t allow a 3.5 yr old car back in rejected it’s too old.Anyway, car's in with the dealer (again) having £10,000+ of repairs done and we've had enough.
Rejected the car after 3yrs 3mths from new and dealer has offered Cap Clean (top book) so far.
Looking for top retail.
Will sue if we can't agree.
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:06
Edited by DJMC on Monday 11th November 19:07
Sounds more like if it it’s being taken in against a new or newer car as a px then you will get offered cap clean as px.
They will never offer you retail money either as a trade in or if by magic they alllwed you to reject it.
BlackTails said:
How did you manage to reject it after having had it so long? There must have been a catalogue of issues over that period to get away with that, surely.
ETA: And how do you square this thread with this post of yours from June this year in an X1 buying advice thread:
"DJMC said:
We have 2016 2.0d xDrive from new. Great for hauling kit and two dogs. 42mpg average. Fast 0-60 around 7 secs. Handles well enough (my other car's a Cayman 981).
Had other SUVs and estates in the past, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Honda, but this is the best so far.
Great in the snow a few years back. Not had it in too many fields but the part time AWD works well.
Our 10th BMW over 33 years."
I'm genuinely puzzled, not trying to be difficult just for the sake of it.
Fair comment. I guess you can put up with a few niggles which take a day each to fix, such as the replaced corroded wheel; replaced broken door hinge; squeaky brake pedal; car trying to kill you by slamming brakes on unnecessarily. If you get over the faults, the car actually does its job really well.ETA: And how do you square this thread with this post of yours from June this year in an X1 buying advice thread:
"DJMC said:
We have 2016 2.0d xDrive from new. Great for hauling kit and two dogs. 42mpg average. Fast 0-60 around 7 secs. Handles well enough (my other car's a Cayman 981).
Had other SUVs and estates in the past, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Honda, but this is the best so far.
Great in the snow a few years back. Not had it in too many fields but the part time AWD works well.
Our 10th BMW over 33 years."
I'm genuinely puzzled, not trying to be difficult just for the sake of it.
Edited by BlackTails on Tuesday 12th November 10:33
But when you have a succession of issues in a short period (which is why we took the extended warranty this August) there's a point where you reach the last straw and concerns over reliability, and time off the road, take over and you go from loving to hating.
New master brake cylinder; replaced EGR Cooler and other components last month; and the "last straw" of the recent diesel "spillage" into just about everything in the engine bay and £10,000+ bill.
The car can be rejected under the Consumer Protection Act 2015 up to 6 years if not of satisfactory quality or unfit for purpose.
It helps that the EGR cooler issue is so well known and affects 268,000 BMWs in the UK as this shows it was unfit for purpose from new. Unsatisfactory quality is a harder test, but as the DP has agreed it's not satisfactory this isn't an issue.
I'm a little confused, i'll be honest.
You've had BMW's for 33yrs, presumably mostly happy. You have 1 that the dealer admits is rogue, i.e, not part of a wide spread problem, and you want to throw the towel in and run to another brand? Chances are you could get another X1 that's identical on paper and it'll be fine.
We've had a few brand new BMW's and retained for several years. All without fault.
We've also had older BMW's which have fallen over with a mix of durability and random problems.
Does my experience suggest newer BMW's are infact better? No, because my sample size is so small out of the total population I can't make a robust statement, suggesting as much would amount to howling at the moon.
My opinion is they are generally better, you can see just by looking at them engineers have developed better solutions to the same problem over time. But again, no-one here can substantiate this claim without proper data that only BMW will have.
You've had BMW's for 33yrs, presumably mostly happy. You have 1 that the dealer admits is rogue, i.e, not part of a wide spread problem, and you want to throw the towel in and run to another brand? Chances are you could get another X1 that's identical on paper and it'll be fine.
We've had a few brand new BMW's and retained for several years. All without fault.
We've also had older BMW's which have fallen over with a mix of durability and random problems.
Does my experience suggest newer BMW's are infact better? No, because my sample size is so small out of the total population I can't make a robust statement, suggesting as much would amount to howling at the moon.
My opinion is they are generally better, you can see just by looking at them engineers have developed better solutions to the same problem over time. But again, no-one here can substantiate this claim without proper data that only BMW will have.
DJMC said:
The car can be rejected under the Consumer Protection Act 2015 up to 6 years if not of satisfactory quality or unfit for purpose.
That's not right. You're confusing the limitation period - which is the time in which you must bring a claim before it is extinguished - with the time in which you can reject the goods. If you are serious about litigating, you should get some proper advice about your rights and options. rallycross said:
Dealer won’t allow a 3.5 yr old car back in rejected it’s too old.
Sounds more like if it it’s being taken in against a new or newer car as a px then you will get offered cap clean as px.
They will never offer you retail money either as a trade in or if by magic they alllwed you to reject it.
DP emailed me last week to say he's happy to offer "Cap clean" whether we wish to buy another car from BMW, Audi (we expressed an interest), or indeed just wish to sell regardless.Sounds more like if it it’s being taken in against a new or newer car as a px then you will get offered cap clean as px.
They will never offer you retail money either as a trade in or if by magic they alllwed you to reject it.
It's not about being "allowed" to do something by your dealer, it's about using legislation to its full potential for the purpose it was created. We have an excellent legal team advising us and I'm used to the court process, both county and high courts.
BlackTails said:
That's not right. You're confusing the limitation period - which is the time in which you must bring a claim before it is extinguished - with the time in which you can reject the goods. If you are serious about litigating, you should get some proper advice about your rights and options.
Have a read: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/sh...After 6 months a buyer has to prove his case. CPA 2015 covers rejection right up to the 6 year limitation.
Shanksy87 said:
I'm a little confused, i'll be honest.
You've had BMW's for 33yrs, presumably mostly happy. You have 1 that the dealer admits is rogue, i.e, not part of a wide spread problem, and you want to throw the towel in and run to another brand? Chances are you could get another X1 that's identical on paper and it'll be fine.
We've had a few brand new BMW's and retained for several years. All without fault.
We've also had older BMW's which have fallen over with a mix of durability and random problems.
Does my experience suggest newer BMW's are infact better? No, because my sample size is so small out of the total population I can't make a robust statement, suggesting as much would amount to howling at the moon.
My opinion is they are generally better, you can see just by looking at them engineers have developed better solutions to the same problem over time. But again, no-one here can substantiate this claim without proper data that only BMW will have.
https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-vehicle-dependability-studyYou've had BMW's for 33yrs, presumably mostly happy. You have 1 that the dealer admits is rogue, i.e, not part of a wide spread problem, and you want to throw the towel in and run to another brand? Chances are you could get another X1 that's identical on paper and it'll be fine.
We've had a few brand new BMW's and retained for several years. All without fault.
We've also had older BMW's which have fallen over with a mix of durability and random problems.
Does my experience suggest newer BMW's are infact better? No, because my sample size is so small out of the total population I can't make a robust statement, suggesting as much would amount to howling at the moon.
My opinion is they are generally better, you can see just by looking at them engineers have developed better solutions to the same problem over time. But again, no-one here can substantiate this claim without proper data that only BMW will have.
I think you must just be unlucky.
Not all cars are built equal. All the cars I have had performed as expected. I mean, new cars where always reliable, older cars needed more work to keep at the road. I was lucky not to experience your problems.
It does sound a riduculous amount to spen on a car that is very new so I agree with you that the car is not fit for purpose. Best of luck with all that. For me touch wood so far so good but going Audi next year so hopefully it will be ok.
Saying that a bad car like yours is not the rule but the exception so I wouldn't change brands because of that as it is not representative of the overal quality/reliability. Going for another brand is just as risky, Japanese or not.
Not all cars are built equal. All the cars I have had performed as expected. I mean, new cars where always reliable, older cars needed more work to keep at the road. I was lucky not to experience your problems.
It does sound a riduculous amount to spen on a car that is very new so I agree with you that the car is not fit for purpose. Best of luck with all that. For me touch wood so far so good but going Audi next year so hopefully it will be ok.
Saying that a bad car like yours is not the rule but the exception so I wouldn't change brands because of that as it is not representative of the overal quality/reliability. Going for another brand is just as risky, Japanese or not.
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