Opening up the NHS to Trump!
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
Labour seems to be suggesting that Boris will open up the NHS, sorry, OUR NHS, to Trump!
Noooo, shock horror, how can that be??
Can someone explain how opening the NHS to a freer market is so terrible?
What makes you think the American healthcare system is a free market?Noooo, shock horror, how can that be??
Can someone explain how opening the NHS to a freer market is so terrible?
Free markets are not free when they are controlled by a few big players and the cost of entry is too high. The fear is that services will be sold off to the lowest bidder, and that may not be the cheapest in the long run, or the best for patients, the tax payer or the NHS. Just take a look at the mess of some of the PFIs and some of the major collapse of public service providers. The problem with these services is that unlike, say, a retail company, the customers don’t just get grumpy but go away when they go bust. Someone has to pick that up and fix it.
Electro1980 said:
Free markets are not free when they are controlled by a few big players and the cost of entry is too high. The fear is that services will be sold off to the lowest bidder, and that may not be the cheapest in the long run, or the best for patients, the tax payer or the NHS. Just take a look at the mess of some of the PFIs and some of the major collapse of public service providers. The problem with these services is that unlike, say, a retail company, the customers don’t just get grumpy but go away when they go bust. Someone has to pick that up and fix it.
Services contracts for the NHS are already open to US bids, thanks to various WTO agreements. Yet it hasn't happened.
The issues you cite are ones of ineffective procurement functions, not the companies bidding...
Piha said:
The costs of medicines is much higher in the US than the UK. If Trump gets his way then you can expect healthcare costs in the UK to spiral.
Why?We already buy the same drugs, from the same manufacturers.
That's what happens when products can be patented.
As always with this topic, thousands of metric tonnes of bulls
t rhetoric, exceptional shortage of reality (or indeed history)... Sway said:
Piha said:
The costs of medicines is much higher in the US than the UK. If Trump gets his way then you can expect healthcare costs in the UK to spiral.
Why?We already buy the same drugs, from the same manufacturers.
That's what happens when products can be patented.
As always with this topic, thousands of metric tonnes of bulls
t rhetoric, exceptional shortage of reality (or indeed history)... frisbee said:
Ayahuasca said:
Labour seems to be suggesting that Boris will open up the NHS, sorry, OUR NHS, to Trump!
Noooo, shock horror, how can that be??
Can someone explain how opening the NHS to a freer market is so terrible?
What makes you think the American healthcare system is a free market?Noooo, shock horror, how can that be??
Can someone explain how opening the NHS to a freer market is so terrible?
The point is that giving the NHS more choice as to where to buy goods and services constitutes a freer market.
We didn't hear this panic when the EU was trying to get a trade deal with the US.
ChunkyloverSV said:
Sway said:
Piha said:
The costs of medicines is much higher in the US than the UK. If Trump gets his way then you can expect healthcare costs in the UK to spiral.
Why?We already buy the same drugs, from the same manufacturers.
That's what happens when products can be patented.
As always with this topic, thousands of metric tonnes of bulls
t rhetoric, exceptional shortage of reality (or indeed history)... Things like paracetamol and many others, are on the open market with free competition. As you say, if certified to the same standards then it's purely a case of lowest price with high confidence of being able to meet demand.
For drugs/medicines that are still under patent protection - then there is no 'free market', you have one choice. But posters like some on this thread aren't quite capable of the logical reasoning that this conclusion inevitably leads to, compared to their flowed through rhetoric.
Bill said:
The US system is very expensive and has poor results (on average...). The NHS isn't perfect, but pushing it the US route is a big step backwards.
Whilst I agree that the US healthcare cost is very often prohibitively expensive, The Poor results on average, I’m not sure about. It’s been a while since last looked, but at things like cancer survival over 5 years, cardiovascular diseases ect. the USA was way ahead of us, along with quite a few other countries.
Happy to be corrected if you have any more up do date data.
Could be worse, this morning some Labour nutter was suggesting that a Vote for anybody but Labour was a vote for Trump.... I am not sure that that line of campaigning will have the expected effect...It is the same with this NHS ridiculousness. Any right thinking person will hear the words and after winding back to make sure they heard it right they will laugh.
There are always the odd few who are so far down the USA/ Trump hating rabbit hole that they believe it though... See above...
There are always the odd few who are so far down the USA/ Trump hating rabbit hole that they believe it though... See above...
The really, really irritating thing, is that other than zealots for whom the NHS is sacred 'just as it is, but with more money' most people recognise it could be better.
Yet, for some fking ridiculous reason, the only possible alternative option, is to compare with the bloody US.
If only there were half a dozen, free at point of use, and measurably better value/effective systems within a thousand miles... Or indeed several others further afield.
We do ourselves an immense disservice, and all for bullst political gain.
Yet, for some f
king ridiculous reason, the only possible alternative option, is to compare with the bloody US. If only there were half a dozen, free at point of use, and measurably better value/effective systems within a thousand miles... Or indeed several others further afield.
We do ourselves an immense disservice, and all for bulls
t political gain. Ayahuasca said:
I don’t think the issue is the difference between the UK and US healthcare systems - that is another topic - but the effect, good or bad, of allowing US suppliers to compete for NHS contracts. I think that is what Corbyn is getting at.
And they can compete today (and for a very long time) . So what is different?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff