Lancaster bomber Berlin raid audio
Discussion
On the BBC radio app.
Journalist Wynford Vaughan-Thomas flew in a Lancaster on a 1943 raid on Berlin and recorded much of the audio as well as gave a running commentary.
Well worth a listen.
The crew speak in clipped 1940’s English, and their excitement is palpable as there is sudden machine gunfire and they shoot down a nightfighter.
Good show lads. Wizard show.
Journalist Wynford Vaughan-Thomas flew in a Lancaster on a 1943 raid on Berlin and recorded much of the audio as well as gave a running commentary.
Well worth a listen.
The crew speak in clipped 1940’s English, and their excitement is palpable as there is sudden machine gunfire and they shoot down a nightfighter.
Good show lads. Wizard show.
It's here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/favourites/b0076...
It's a dramatic piece of audio; as you say, when the machine guns open up is makes your heart pump, 75 years later! The thing that struck me was how calm the crew were. A must listen.
By the by, I always thought it was Richard Attenborough.
It's a dramatic piece of audio; as you say, when the machine guns open up is makes your heart pump, 75 years later! The thing that struck me was how calm the crew were. A must listen.
By the by, I always thought it was Richard Attenborough.
From internet:
Air Vice Marshal (AVM) E. H. Stephenson AO OBE Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), ex 207 Squadron RAF, identifies the pilot as Flight Lieutenant (Flt Lt) Ken Letford, and the Navigator "Conn" as Warrant Officer H. Connelly RAAF. The 207 Squadron RAF Association in England identify the remainder of the crew as Sergeant (Sgt). C. Stewart, Flight Engineer; Flt Lt W. Bray, Bomb Aimer; Sgt W. Sparks, Wireless Operator; Flying Officer J. Fieldhouse, Mid-Upper Air-Gunner; Sgt. H. Devenish, Rear Air-Gunner, all RAF. The aircraft was Lancaster ED586 EM-F which was lost on an operation to Stettin on 5-6 January 1944.
Happily at least some of the crew survived the war:
Air Vice Marshal (AVM) E. H. Stephenson AO OBE Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), ex 207 Squadron RAF, identifies the pilot as Flight Lieutenant (Flt Lt) Ken Letford, and the Navigator "Conn" as Warrant Officer H. Connelly RAAF. The 207 Squadron RAF Association in England identify the remainder of the crew as Sergeant (Sgt). C. Stewart, Flight Engineer; Flt Lt W. Bray, Bomb Aimer; Sgt W. Sparks, Wireless Operator; Flying Officer J. Fieldhouse, Mid-Upper Air-Gunner; Sgt. H. Devenish, Rear Air-Gunner, all RAF. The aircraft was Lancaster ED586 EM-F which was lost on an operation to Stettin on 5-6 January 1944.
Happily at least some of the crew survived the war:
Piginapoke said:
It's here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/favourites/b0076...
It's a dramatic piece of audio; as you say, when the machine guns open up is makes your heart pump, 75 years later! The thing that struck me was how calm the crew were. A must listen.
By the by, I always thought it was Richard Attenborough.
He was a bit young in 1943 (20) to be flying as a BBC reporter - although old enough to be aircrew.It's a dramatic piece of audio; as you say, when the machine guns open up is makes your heart pump, 75 years later! The thing that struck me was how calm the crew were. A must listen.
By the by, I always thought it was Richard Attenborough.
Did you mean Richard Dimbleby?
However, it was definitely Wynford Vaughan-Thomas. He's second from the right in the picture above.
Was this broadcast on the radio at the time? It does have the feel of the type of thing the authorities wanted the public to hear, what with the RP speech, wizard prang attitude and the shooting down of a night fighter. No bad thing I suppose and I’m not doubting the recording or the bravery of the bomber crews; I recently went to the air museum at Elvington where they had an area dedicated to Bomber Command which was quite sobering. I’m sure I’ve also heard another recording of a bomber mission, very much different in character, the pilot sounding very much more ‘working class’ and the apprehension in the crew’s voices much more evident.
That’s why I asked how common it was for an A/G to shoot down a night fighter. I saw a statistic about the chances of an enemy fighter being shot down by a B-17 in daylight, and it was incredibly low. So the chances of a fighter being shot down at night, by an aircraft that just happens to have a journalist on board seems almost negligible. Could be totally legit, but it seemed like a bit of propaganda.
dr_gn said:
That’s why I asked how common it was for an A/G to shoot down a night fighter. I saw a statistic about the chances of an enemy fighter being shot down by a B-17 in daylight, and it was incredibly low. So the chances of a fighter being shot down at night, by an aircraft that just happens to have a journalist on board seems almost negligible. Could be totally legit, but it seemed like a bit of propaganda.
You may be right, but isn't it a pity these days that the first thing we do when presented with anything is try to dismantle it and look for problems and untruths. In war you need propaganda - otherwise we might have quit in 1940.Re the air gunners I would hypothesise that there was a big difference between B17 day tactics and Lancaster night ones.
The B17 gunners were up against small, fast moving 109s and Fw190s whose tactic was to make fully visible and rapid in-and-out attacks.
The Lancaster gunners opponents were relatively slow, relatively large Ju88s whose tactic was to sneak in close and unseen before unleashing a short range attack. So if a Lancaster air gunner was able to see a Ju88 he might have had a better chance of shooting it down than a B17 gunner would have of trying to hit a Focke Wulf.
The above is just conjecture, I have seen no evidence.
The B17 gunners were up against small, fast moving 109s and Fw190s whose tactic was to make fully visible and rapid in-and-out attacks.
The Lancaster gunners opponents were relatively slow, relatively large Ju88s whose tactic was to sneak in close and unseen before unleashing a short range attack. So if a Lancaster air gunner was able to see a Ju88 he might have had a better chance of shooting it down than a B17 gunner would have of trying to hit a Focke Wulf.
The above is just conjecture, I have seen no evidence.
Simpo Two said:
dr_gn said:
That’s why I asked how common it was for an A/G to shoot down a night fighter. I saw a statistic about the chances of an enemy fighter being shot down by a B-17 in daylight, and it was incredibly low. So the chances of a fighter being shot down at night, by an aircraft that just happens to have a journalist on board seems almost negligible. Could be totally legit, but it seemed like a bit of propaganda.
You may be right, but isn't it a pity these days that the first thing we do when presented with anything is try to dismantle it and look for problems and untruths. In war you need propaganda - otherwise we might have quit in 1940.
t as fact on a daily basis, so I guess it’s the default to question things that seem too good to be true. Ayahuasca said:
Re the air gunners I would hypothesise that there was a big difference between B17 day tactics and Lancaster night ones.
The B17 gunners were up against small, fast moving 109s and Fw190s whose tactic was to make fully visible and rapid in-and-out attacks.
The Lancaster gunners opponents were relatively slow, relatively large Ju88s whose tactic was to sneak in close and unseen before unleashing a short range attack. So if a Lancaster air gunner was able to see a Ju88 he might have had a better chance of shooting it down than a B17 gunner would have of trying to hit a Focke Wulf.
The above is just conjecture, I have seen no evidence.
There is a list of Lancaster air gunner aces - it’s a very short list.The B17 gunners were up against small, fast moving 109s and Fw190s whose tactic was to make fully visible and rapid in-and-out attacks.
The Lancaster gunners opponents were relatively slow, relatively large Ju88s whose tactic was to sneak in close and unseen before unleashing a short range attack. So if a Lancaster air gunner was able to see a Ju88 he might have had a better chance of shooting it down than a B17 gunner would have of trying to hit a Focke Wulf.
The above is just conjecture, I have seen no evidence.
Ayahuasca said:
dr_gn said:
There is a list of Lancaster air gunner aces - it’s a very short list.
I imagine it would be pretty hard to get a ‘confirmed’ kill at night. They may very well have shot at something that night. Whether they killed it - or even hit it - could be open to conjecture.
Generally, gunners were told by their Skippers not to fire their guns unless they were absolutely sure they were shooting at something definite. Otherwise, firing your guns was a sure give away to other night fighters that would be on the prowl in the locality.
I'm sure it would be possible to tie in the sortie with Vaughan-Thomas on board with the actual raid that took place that night, together with claims for shooting down any German night fighters and maybe even corroboration with known German losses on the same night.
Generally, gunners were told by their Skippers not to fire their guns unless they were absolutely sure they were shooting at something definite. Otherwise, firing your guns was a sure give away to other night fighters that would be on the prowl in the locality.
I'm sure it would be possible to tie in the sortie with Vaughan-Thomas on board with the actual raid that took place that night, together with claims for shooting down any German night fighters and maybe even corroboration with known German losses on the same night.
dr_gn said:
That’s why I asked how common it was for an A/G to shoot down a night fighter. I saw a statistic about the chances of an enemy fighter being shot down by a B-17 in daylight, and it was incredibly low. So the chances of a fighter being shot down at night, by an aircraft that just happens to have a journalist on board seems almost negligible. Could be totally legit, but it seemed like a bit of propaganda.
Mrs DSs dad was a Lancaster tail gunner, I don't think he shot any down. However it's not like you'd not want to have a rear gunner, is it?Dog Star said:
dr_gn said:
That’s why I asked how common it was for an A/G to shoot down a night fighter. I saw a statistic about the chances of an enemy fighter being shot down by a B-17 in daylight, and it was incredibly low. So the chances of a fighter being shot down at night, by an aircraft that just happens to have a journalist on board seems almost negligible. Could be totally legit, but it seemed like a bit of propaganda.
Mrs DSs dad was a Lancaster tail gunner, I don't think he shot any down. However it's not like you'd not want to have a rear gunner, is it?Eric Mc said:
Generally, gunners were told by their Skippers not to fire their guns unless they were absolutely sure they were shooting at something definite. Otherwise, firing your guns was a sure give away to other night fighters that would be on the prowl in the locality.
There was also the issue of flash blinding when firing the guns at night as well, although the Nachtjager crews were quite competent enough at knocking our bombers out of the night sky without needing the muzzle flashes of the Brownings.Dual Under the Stars by Wilhelm Johnen is a very good first hand account of the night air battles over Germany from the point of view of a Luftwaffe Night Fighter crew.
A bit more info here:
http://roys-blog-moments-in-time.blogspot.com/2014...
Wynford V-T and sound recordist Reg Pidsley with F for Freddie before the flight, and the offending mid-upper turret.
http://roys-blog-moments-in-time.blogspot.com/2014...
Wynford V-T and sound recordist Reg Pidsley with F for Freddie before the flight, and the offending mid-upper turret.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff