A brand new hospital

[ruggedscotty]

So here we are in Scotland, with a brand new hospital that simply can not be used...

Why do we get so much wrong in this country and end up being screwed over ?

[Matt Cup]

Just to add a bit of context to your rant, it is the new Edinburgh hospital you are talking about?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-edinbur...

[Blue Oval84]

How can that possibly happen?!

How much could possibly have been saved by putting in smaller drains? (if indeed that's what the issue is) Surely the savings must have been tiny but ensured there was no future-proofing built in, or even present-day-proofing?

[Dixy]

It is all the fault of the English/Tory government, if only Scotland had self rule.

[Klippie]

Very simple explanation...SNP total and complete incompetence to properly manage a project they are in charge the buck stops with them...the sooner they are booted out of office the better.

[Jasandjules]

Call me simple but surely the contractors who failed to engage adequate drainage or the designers who failed to incorporate adequate drainage are liable? They carry insurance, why should the NHS lose hundreds of millions?

[ruggedscotty]

it is a right mess indeed. reading up on this and its going to get worse I believe, same company that's involved with the Glasgow hospital.

They have found so much wrong with this development its all on the web....

https://www.gov.scot/publications/nhs-lothian-resp...

https://www.gov.scot/publications/nhs-lothian-roya...

really worth reading the reports that have been produced. makes for shocking reading

[Audicab]

Reminds me of one of the funniest Yes Minister. It certainly was ahead of it's time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-5zEb1oS9A

[Alucidnation]

This is what happens when you go with the cheapest bidder.

[stevesingo]

Jasandjules said:

Call me simple but surely the contractors who failed to engage adequate drainage or the designers who failed to incorporate adequate drainage are liable? They carry insurance, why should the NHS lose hundreds of millions?

Probably because at design review stage, the "customer" would have agreed the design* and instructed the contractor to proceed.

I failure in project management.

• That generally means someone who hold the purse strings is impressed by the contractor's pretty picture artist impressions, not an independent QS, structural engineers, building control etc. They cost money don't ya know. Cheapest risk management measure you can do is employ competent people to review designs.

Edited by stevesingo on Monday 18th November 23:02

[2fast748]

See also the new Liverpool Hospital/Carillion debacle.

[ruggedscotty]

Jasandjules said:

Call me simple but surely the contractors who failed to engage adequate drainage or the designers who failed to incorporate adequate drainage are liable? They carry insurance, why should the NHS lose hundreds of millions?

company went bust https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/m...

[Randy Winkman]

I thought this thread might be about one of Boris Johnson's non-existent new hospitals he's announced during one of his speeches:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov...

Though the fakery seems to extend beyond just hospitals.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

Ironic that the SNP have just recently released a video of 50 Achievements. They could have this in their
follow up video... 50 SNP Failures, although to be fair they would have a staggering choice of alternatives.

[alangla]

ruggedscotty said:

Jasandjules said:

Call me simple but surely the contractors who failed to engage adequate drainage or the designers who failed to incorporate adequate drainage are liable? They carry insurance, why should the NHS lose hundreds of millions?

company went bust https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/m...

I accept I'm naïve when it comes to contract law on large scale building projects, but how does the failure of a subcontractor like this become NHS Lothian/the taxpayer's problem and not Multiplex's?

[stevesingo]

alangla said:

I accept I'm naïve when it comes to contract law on large scale building projects, but how does the failure of a subcontractor like this become NHS Lothian/the taxpayer's problem and not Multiplex's?

One reason could be, if the customer specified the use of specific sub-contractors (local employment) then the risk is transferred to the customer as the Principal Contractor will refuse to hold the risk for something which is not of their choice.

[ChevyChase77]

Dixy said:

It is all the fault of the English/Tory government, if only Scotland had self rule.

You may joke, but here in Reading we've had a Labour run council for as long as I can remember. They closed both main swimming pools without having replacements ready. It's going to take at least 5 years to open the new pools, and yet there are still people blaming the Tory Government for the Labour run councils mess......

[amgmcqueen]

Thatcher's fault......

[vonuber]

Hmmm, this is interesting. I've done a lot of drainage on buildings*, would be interesting to see what has gone wrong and how.
I suspect the Client team may have had independent design verification, which is why they are carrying the can? Otherwise if it is just built / designed wrong, then that should be down to the contractor.

Guess it comes down to the ER they had.

• as in skyscrapers, massive infrastructure etc - not m&E stuff but external.

[malks222]

alangla said:

I accept I'm naïve when it comes to contract law on large scale building projects, but how does the failure of a subcontractor like this become NHS Lothian/the taxpayer's problem and not Multiplex's?

could be many reasons:

- the designer could have been a nominated subcontractor, eg you have no option but to use them

- the client may have engaged the designer on their own contract and been responsible for providing the design to the contractor building

- the client got their specification wrong- eg- we need a ventilation system that works for x number of beds, oops we have actually requested ‘x plus 25’ beds. or we need a filtration system for x specification, oops we have different wards going in now

also some of the article written in the press are terrible, I’d like to know the ‘trade union representatives’ knowledge of contract law and what the actual issues with construction are? also bringing up the snagging list with thousands of lines on it- that’s just normal for a major construction project. some of the items could be fixing minor paint scuffs of damage to doors, not saying it’s not important but on projects of this size they are very common.

It’s obviously a very big issue, the hospital was due to be open. but that’s why there is a contract in place, it will have damages against being late and people will know where the blame lies.

i just don’t feel the truth is actually been reported in the press yet