F10 M5 or W212 E63 BiTurbo?

[TheAngryDog]

I am looking to change cars next year and the shortlist is between the two in the topic.

I know a fair deal about the F10 M5 from my time when I was a member of the M5 owners club on Facebook, but I do not know too much about the E63.

If anyone has any experiences etc that they could share I would appreciate it.

[TheAngryDog]

Anyone?

[DKL]

I'm looking for an estate 212 in a roundabout sort of way.
There have been a few problems with the 157 engine, one in particular on the mbclub site, but generally they seem pretty good.
Prefacelift S engine has the same bhp as the post standard version but neither are exactly slow.
Easily modded if that's your want - one chap just lifted it conservatively to 666 bhp, more was on offer.

I know nothing about the M5 but a e class or cls estate with the 157 is comig our way in the end I'm sure.

[nuttywobbler]

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

[jontysafe]

nuttywobbler said:

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

Get a grip yer gert fanny

[Technoholic]

nuttywobbler said:

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

I've been on the fence between getting a newish E220d Estate for the daily duties, in warranty etc, or dealing with the running costs and getting an E63 that's a bit older. This post has convinced me that I definitely need to get the E63. I just realised I love cars in general and don't want to be socially acceptable!

[TheAngryDog]

nuttywobbler said:

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

I own an E60 M5 currently, I have no desire to buy a white good.

I'll stick to buying yobbish while I am allowed to be. You're not my mum

[TheAngryDog]

DKL said:

I'm looking for an estate 212 in a roundabout sort of way.
There have been a few problems with the 157 engine, one in particular on the mbclub site, but generally they seem pretty good.
Prefacelift S engine has the same bhp as the post standard version but neither are exactly slow.
Easily modded if that's your want - one chap just lifted it conservatively to 666 bhp, more was on offer.

I know nothing about the M5 but a e class or cls estate with the 157 is comig our way in the end I'm sure.

Thanks, I had seen that - Seems to be a rare one, it seems that the M157 is much more reliable than the S63 in the M5.

[mlatham]

Current F10 M5 owner and had the chance to drive a 2014 5.5 E63 for a week or so a few years back.

M5 is the more comfortable of the two and I think has the better interior. Important for me as used daily for motorway commute. Noise (or lack of) is either a positive or negative depending on your point of view. I'd like a little more personally.

E63 ride is harder, but sounds much better. Felt like more of a blunt intstrument.

Both are quite subtle cars and very usable but can change their personalities with the push of a button. Loads of kit in both. I prefer the iDrive in the BMW to the Merc system.

ETA - Both are extremely rapid and have loads of grunt. Certainly not as revvy or tuneful as your V10 M5, but guessing you know this already

Edited by mlatham on Wednesday 20th November 16:12

[nobrakes]

Older, but very capable:

6.2 AMG naturally aspirated E63 estate

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

90k miles 500bhp, heated massage seats, keyless entry, and sub 5secs to 60.

£12450 on the screen

[MOBB]

I've had a 2015 F10 M5 and a 2012 CLS63 AMG

M5 has a more bezerk top end, the AMG has a bit more low down shove

AMG sounds significantly better than the M5

M5 rode much better than the AMG

M5 infotainment is noticeably better than the AMG

I had many squeaks and rattles in the AMG, none in the M5

Economy for me was similar, 22 mpg general driving A roads and dual carriageways

Both have awful traction in cold/wet conditions

Look into brakes and suspension replacement costs, they can be eye-watering

[TheAngryDog]

mlatham said:

Current F10 M5 owner and had the chance to drive a 2014 5.5 E63 for a week or so a few years back.

M5 is the more comfortable of the two and I think has the better interior. Important for me as used daily for motorway commute. Noise (or lack of) is either a positive or negative depending on your point of view. I'd like a little more personally.

E63 ride is harder, but sounds much better. Felt like more of a blunt intstrument.

Both are quite subtle cars and very usable but can change their personalities with the push of a button. Loads of kit in both. I prefer the iDrive in the BMW to the Merc system.

ETA - Both are extremely rapid and have loads of grunt. Certainly not as revvy or tuneful as your V10 M5, but guessing you know this already

Edited by mlatham on Wednesday 20th November 16:12

Thanks for your reply. I wouldn't be using it as a daily, but noise isn't an issue anyway, as you allude to with my V10 M5 I intend on driving both before I ultimately make a decision, as it may be better the devil you know!

nobrakes said:

Older, but very capable:

6.2 AMG naturally aspirated E63 estate

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

90k miles 500bhp, heated massage seats, keyless entry, and sub 5secs to 60.

£12450 on the screen

Thanks, but I have no need for an estate and I don't particularly like them. Plus if I wanted to stick with NA then I would probably just keep my E60 M5.

MOBB said:

I've had a 2015 F10 M5 and a 2012 CLS63 AMG

M5 has a more bezerk top end, the AMG has a bit more low down shove

AMG sounds significantly better than the M5

M5 rode much better than the AMG

M5 infotainment is noticeably better than the AMG

I had many squeaks and rattles in the AMG, none in the M5

Economy for me was similar, 22 mpg general driving A roads and dual carriageways

Both have awful traction in cold/wet conditions

Look into brakes and suspension replacement costs, they can be eye-watering

Thanks for the info. Cost's aren't a massive issue - I spent £13k+ fixing my E60 M5 so any bills smaller than that are welcome!

[ZX10R NIN]

The E63 wins it for me as it's the better overall package but the M5 is the sweeter steer when you're truly on it. The 5.5 is bombastic (not as sweet as the N/A but a good unit none the less) & this makes it the better car everyday of week for me.

My dad has had his 5.5TT CL63 for four years & it's just been routine servicing at our local specialist with a total cost of £3900 inc a set of discs & pads as well as a set of tyres.

[Jamescrs]

nuttywobbler said:

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

This comment alone would make me buy an E63

[KrisP]

I'm a couple of weeks into W212 E63 ownership, in estate flavour. Whilst I've not owned or driven either the E60 M5, not its F10 successor, I've owned a succession of M cars, incl the E39 M5 and several older M3's.

Personally, I think its very comfortable, and I'm using mine as a daily. The only thing that might frustrate or annoy you is the noise - its quite loud, and somewhat against how the rest of the car is set up, being quite restrained. The only other aspect, and one I was fully aware of before I bought it, is that the gearbox tech is pretty old hat these days, I'm sure the F10 box would be quite a step forwards.

Two aspects for me over the BMW, one being its an estate, which couldn't be matched, and 2nd the noise and pull of the thing - its outrageous for a 1.8T car IMO

[TheAngryDog]

ZX10R NIN said:

The E63 wins it for me as it's the better overall package but the M5 is the sweeter steer when you're truly on it. The 5.5 is bombastic (not as sweet as the N/A but a good unit none the less) & this makes it the better car everyday of week for me.

My dad has had his 5.5TT CL63 for four years & it's just been routine servicing at our local specialist with a total cost of £3900 inc a set of discs & pads as well as a set of tyres.

Cheers, I thought you may have had some experience of an x63 Merc. I think the Merc could be improved upon with lowering links etc to make it a better steer, with the addition of a limited slip differential. It really does make a good noise for a modern turbo charged car, especially compared to the meek sounding F10.

Servicing costs seem reasonable.

Jamescrs said:

nuttywobbler said:

Cars like this are becoming a bit 'LivingLifeFast' / yobbish / a social no-no - save yourself tens of thousands and buy more socially acceptable imho.

This comment alone would make me buy an E63

Maybe even 2.

KrisP said:

I'm a couple of weeks into W212 E63 ownership, in estate flavour. Whilst I've not owned or driven either the E60 M5, not its F10 successor, I've owned a succession of M cars, incl the E39 M5 and several older M3's.

Personally, I think its very comfortable, and I'm using mine as a daily. The only thing that might frustrate or annoy you is the noise - its quite loud, and somewhat against how the rest of the car is set up, being quite restrained. The only other aspect, and one I was fully aware of before I bought it, is that the gearbox tech is pretty old hat these days, I'm sure the F10 box would be quite a step forwards.

Two aspects for me over the BMW, one being its an estate, which couldn't be matched, and 2nd the noise and pull of the thing - its outrageous for a 1.8T car IMO

I don't mind loud. My E60 M5 is quite loud with its exhaust. Yeah I don't think that the MCT-7 is as good as the M-DCT, but for daily duties it is probably better. I think the MCT-7 is the better in auto mode and then M-DCT is the better in manual.

I definitely need to try and get some kind of elongated test drive of the two.

Thanks again for your replies.

[KrisP]

from all the reviews I read and video's I watched, I think a LSD is a very desirable option to be fitted. It wasn't cheap at circa 2.5k from memory, and no idea how common it was

[TheAngryDog]

Yeah not many people ticked that box. A quaife lsd can be had for around £1700 fitted.

[ZX10R NIN]

TheAngryDog said:

ZX10R NIN said:

The E63 wins it for me as it's the better overall package but the M5 is the sweeter steer when you're truly on it. The 5.5 is bombastic (not as sweet as the N/A but a good unit none the less) & this makes it the better car everyday of week for me.

My dad has had his 5.5TT CL63 for four years & it's just been routine servicing at our local specialist with a total cost of £3900 inc a set of discs & pads as well as a set of tyres.

Cheers, I thought you may have had some experience of an x63 Merc. I think the Merc could be improved upon with lowering links etc to make it a better steer, with the addition of a limited slip differential. It really does make a good noise for a modern turbo charged car, especially compared to the meek sounding F10.

Servicing costs seem reasonable.

My dad has the lowering links & it does make it feel a bit sharper but not massively I found the best effect was the Brabus module but it's far from a cheap (I got mine used on German Ebay) solution.

The diff makes a huge difference it's hard to find an E63 with one fitted but to retro fit one is inexpensive (in comparison to the cost of the car) around £1800 & for me it's up there with the H Pipe (turbo 63's should have an H Pipe rather than an X Pipe) for cost effective upgrades.

[TheAngryDog]

Cheers for the info, handy to know.

I am told that the gearboxes can cause issues, have you come across that?