What to do with empty retail units ?
Discussion
As we know the majority of shops will be closed in 5 -10 years, in certain US towns where huge malls have been built the actual town centres have turned into graffitied ghettos, and now floors of malls are getting boarded off, now in London there are many Oxford Street stores hanging by a thread, so with there large floor areas without light they can’t be turned into residential.... so any clues or do they just get boarded up forever ?
The John Lewis experimental store sounds interesting. Basically, turn the store into an adult day care centre with lots of activities centred on their products. Cooking lessons, craft experiences, tutorials on - I don't know - styling yourself in the latest fashions. Stuff like that. Don't know quite how they translate that into product sales, though, or if the experiences themselves will be paid for.
In our local small shopping centre, they've got a few empty units
- One of them has been turned into a free table tennis playing area, they've got 2 or 3 tables in there with bats and balls. I've never got a game, its always busy.
- Another has been turned into a kind of "lounge" area with sofas for you to sit and rest if you wish during your arduous shopping experience.
Just keeps it a little bit more alive than another boarded up/shuttered down unit.
Oh and I'm sure one of them will be opening up soon as Calendar Club comes back for the festive season.
I think that there needs to be room for some more of these pop-up shops to open up. Short term, with little need for much more than power to the unit and access to the delivery bay, could be ideal for someone either looking to start up, or somewhere seasonal such as Calendar Club.
Maybe a kind of "bring and buy sale" area could be there as well - especially in winter when car boot sales might be less popular due to weather.
- One of them has been turned into a free table tennis playing area, they've got 2 or 3 tables in there with bats and balls. I've never got a game, its always busy.
- Another has been turned into a kind of "lounge" area with sofas for you to sit and rest if you wish during your arduous shopping experience.
Just keeps it a little bit more alive than another boarded up/shuttered down unit.
Oh and I'm sure one of them will be opening up soon as Calendar Club comes back for the festive season.
I think that there needs to be room for some more of these pop-up shops to open up. Short term, with little need for much more than power to the unit and access to the delivery bay, could be ideal for someone either looking to start up, or somewhere seasonal such as Calendar Club.
Maybe a kind of "bring and buy sale" area could be there as well - especially in winter when car boot sales might be less popular due to weather.
So much capacity for change... What about building some co working spaces. Places where small business people can have an office environment without the stagnant cost for a permanent office? What about turning them into workshop style areas you can pay an hourly fee (or a club membership) to use?
I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
I also like working on my car. Wouldn't it be great if I could rent a lift when I needed one. If it had a decent air compressor even better. Could bundle in other services like tool hire, and pro's on hand to help out at a cost and turn DIY mechanics into an enjoyable hobby without the worry and pain of working on a cold driveway alone! Not to mention my neighbours complain to the agency if I take a wheel of my car so I can't do it in front of my garage.
I might be talking rubbish - but i reckon offering things people really want but don't have the ability to get online or easily at home. The high street bores me silly. It's the same coffee shops and similar clothes shop with no real variety. If you want a buzzing town then change it from primarily product driven (which you can easily get online) to physical services and I'd be interested.
I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
I also like working on my car. Wouldn't it be great if I could rent a lift when I needed one. If it had a decent air compressor even better. Could bundle in other services like tool hire, and pro's on hand to help out at a cost and turn DIY mechanics into an enjoyable hobby without the worry and pain of working on a cold driveway alone! Not to mention my neighbours complain to the agency if I take a wheel of my car so I can't do it in front of my garage.
I might be talking rubbish - but i reckon offering things people really want but don't have the ability to get online or easily at home. The high street bores me silly. It's the same coffee shops and similar clothes shop with no real variety. If you want a buzzing town then change it from primarily product driven (which you can easily get online) to physical services and I'd be interested.
I think my city has something like a 40% if that occupation rate in the city centre. In a million years you wouldn't actively go there. but why- massive retail parks built on the edge of it, so everyone drives there !
Interestingly the Asian community on the fringes have built their own (naturally focused and dead sensible thing to do) huge shopping areas, so the 25% BME population sensibly use these areas for goods specific to them- eg clothing, meat.
I have no answer as shopping centres clearly are pretty much as they developed over 100 years ago. I guess they've been hanging on since the early 90's when all the big retail parks started getting built and killing their trade.
being ethical , you could in London town, turn lots of it into social housing- but I suspect turning knackered 60's/70's office suites and shops in to housing would be more costly than dropping it and starting again. then I guess you'd have no infrastructure of green spaces/schools/hospitals adjacent which people want in a town centre !
Interestingly the Asian community on the fringes have built their own (naturally focused and dead sensible thing to do) huge shopping areas, so the 25% BME population sensibly use these areas for goods specific to them- eg clothing, meat.
I have no answer as shopping centres clearly are pretty much as they developed over 100 years ago. I guess they've been hanging on since the early 90's when all the big retail parks started getting built and killing their trade.
being ethical , you could in London town, turn lots of it into social housing- but I suspect turning knackered 60's/70's office suites and shops in to housing would be more costly than dropping it and starting again. then I guess you'd have no infrastructure of green spaces/schools/hospitals adjacent which people want in a town centre !
dxg said:
The John Lewis experimental store sounds interesting. Basically, turn the store into an adult day care centre with lots of activities centred on their products. Cooking lessons, craft experiences, tutorials on - I don't know - styling yourself in the latest fashions. Stuff like that. Don't know quite how they translate that into product sales, though, or if the experiences themselves will be paid for.
High street shopping needs to be more of an experience to separate it. So it's a good idea.Just having a shop piled high with clothes doesn't work unless you're Primark as they don't sell on-line and you can't get those products anywhere else as it's all their own brand stuff.
One end of the St. Enoch Centre in central Glasgow, including the old BHS store, is currently being converted into a Vue cinema plus more food outlets. I suspect you might see bigger shopping centres swinging away from retail and more towards catering/leisure outlets. In terms of individual shops in city centres, probably a bit more difficult to find other uses without looking at demolition.
Shakermaker said:
In our local small shopping centre, they've got a few empty units
- One of them has been turned into a free table tennis playing area, they've got 2 or 3 tables in there with bats and balls. I've never got a game, its always busy.
- Another has been turned into a kind of "lounge" area with sofas for you to sit and rest if you wish during your arduous shopping experience.
Just keeps it a little bit more alive than another boarded up/shuttered down unit.
Oh and I'm sure one of them will be opening up soon as Calendar Club comes back for the festive season.
I think that there needs to be room for some more of these pop-up shops to open up. Short term, with little need for much more than power to the unit and access to the delivery bay, could be ideal for someone either looking to start up, or somewhere seasonal such as Calendar Club.
Maybe a kind of "bring and buy sale" area could be there as well - especially in winter when car boot sales might be less popular due to weather.
They've done the same in Fareham (table tennis), is that where you're from?- One of them has been turned into a free table tennis playing area, they've got 2 or 3 tables in there with bats and balls. I've never got a game, its always busy.
- Another has been turned into a kind of "lounge" area with sofas for you to sit and rest if you wish during your arduous shopping experience.
Just keeps it a little bit more alive than another boarded up/shuttered down unit.
Oh and I'm sure one of them will be opening up soon as Calendar Club comes back for the festive season.
I think that there needs to be room for some more of these pop-up shops to open up. Short term, with little need for much more than power to the unit and access to the delivery bay, could be ideal for someone either looking to start up, or somewhere seasonal such as Calendar Club.
Maybe a kind of "bring and buy sale" area could be there as well - especially in winter when car boot sales might be less popular due to weather.
They've all turned into charity shops where I live, 100's of them.
Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
Gary29 said:
They've all turned into charity shops where I live, 100's of them.
Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
I think they only pay 20% business rates which helps. It is what cripples a lot of businesses Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
Gary29 said:
They've all turned into charity shops where I live, 100's of them.
Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
You forgot to add the most important one: business rates = zero, as they get up to 100% charitable relief. I have known for charity shops to outbid 'normal' shops which not only means that there are fewer normal shops on the street but also it helps to uphold levels of rent which makes it harder for normal shops. Plus, as rates are based on rents, you get the perverse situation where an occupier who doesn't pay rates (i.e. a charity shop) ends up loading normal shops with a higher rates bill because the rates are based on the level of rent.Not sure how much money actually gets donated to charity once all the overheads have been paid though.
Staff costs - Mostly volunteers, so low
Stock costs - Zero
Rent - Same as everyone else
Utilities - Same as everyone else
Selling tat for £1 a go, I doubt the actual charities see much £££ from the takings.
Edited by soxboy on Wednesday 20th November 12:22
milkround said:
I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
https://menssheds.org.ukmilkround said:
So much capacity for change... What about building some co working spaces. Places where small business people can have an office environment without the stagnant cost for a permanent office? What about turning them into workshop style areas you can pay an hourly fee (or a club membership) to use?
I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
I also like working on my car. Wouldn't it be great if I could rent a lift when I needed one. If it had a decent air compressor even better. Could bundle in other services like tool hire, and pro's on hand to help out at a cost and turn DIY mechanics into an enjoyable hobby without the worry and pain of working on a cold driveway alone! Not to mention my neighbours complain to the agency if I take a wheel of my car so I can't do it in front of my garage.
I might be talking rubbish - but i reckon offering things people really want but don't have the ability to get online or easily at home. The high street bores me silly. It's the same coffee shops and similar clothes shop with no real variety. If you want a buzzing town then change it from primarily product driven (which you can easily get online) to physical services and I'd be interested.
All of which make more sense in industrial units. I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
I also like working on my car. Wouldn't it be great if I could rent a lift when I needed one. If it had a decent air compressor even better. Could bundle in other services like tool hire, and pro's on hand to help out at a cost and turn DIY mechanics into an enjoyable hobby without the worry and pain of working on a cold driveway alone! Not to mention my neighbours complain to the agency if I take a wheel of my car so I can't do it in front of my garage.
I might be talking rubbish - but i reckon offering things people really want but don't have the ability to get online or easily at home. The high street bores me silly. It's the same coffee shops and similar clothes shop with no real variety. If you want a buzzing town then change it from primarily product driven (which you can easily get online) to physical services and I'd be interested.
All the ideas coming up on here seem to be niche it may fill a few units but that's it. The other ideas involve low cost.
Ultimately all I can see happening is, if business rates and rent prices done change quite dramatically then the places will just die. Get flattened and turned into residential.
milkround said:
I'm into woodworking - but have a small garage with no electricity. I have most of the tools but it would be great to be able to rent an area to make as much noise as I want and potentially to meet other with a similar hobby. Add in some top quality table saws and other larger tools and I reckon you could be onto something. Add in services and it could be good - so they will get you in the timber at a reasonable price etc.
It's a nice idea for spare commercial space but unfortunately I would imagine the most daunting thing about setting something like that up now would be the risk of people sawing their fingers off and then suing anyone they can about it.The Town centre "precinct" where I live was built on the site of a massive old brewery complex which was completely knocked down to create a covered shopping centre at the end of the 60s.
It's painful to think of the character buildings that could have been retained and repurposed, but were simply flattened in the name of progress
Ironically, 50 years later, the shopping centre is now redundant. The council have sold the entire town centre site to developers who refreshingly have pretty inspired plans for it (i.e. knocking it all down and starting again), rather than flogging the dead horse of trying to fill the many empty units;
- Reduce the overall reliance on big unit shops, increase provision for multi use premises (small and a sprinkling of large retail, food & drink outlets, music/[performance venues, healthcare, gyms, vets, education centres, new microbrewery, museum/exhibition space, and flexible/fixed office & business space)
- More public amenity space for markets, outdoor events (big screen events, street festivals etc)
- mix retail & leisure with significantly increased housing options - sales and rentals to provide income, not just from retail - also brings people back into the town centre
- take the roof off, reinstate old town centre lanes and widen paths, provide 24x7 access to the site (currently we close off the centre of the town between 8.00pm-8.00am) to give the site some space to breathe
- More hotel beds and conference/exhibition space to attract more business & leisure use
It's a great vision and I can't wait for it to be put in place. Town centres have to have more people living, working and playing in them, and people's ideas of the old model of the high street or town shopping centre has to change.
It's painful to think of the character buildings that could have been retained and repurposed, but were simply flattened in the name of progress
Ironically, 50 years later, the shopping centre is now redundant. The council have sold the entire town centre site to developers who refreshingly have pretty inspired plans for it (i.e. knocking it all down and starting again), rather than flogging the dead horse of trying to fill the many empty units;
- Reduce the overall reliance on big unit shops, increase provision for multi use premises (small and a sprinkling of large retail, food & drink outlets, music/[performance venues, healthcare, gyms, vets, education centres, new microbrewery, museum/exhibition space, and flexible/fixed office & business space)
- More public amenity space for markets, outdoor events (big screen events, street festivals etc)
- mix retail & leisure with significantly increased housing options - sales and rentals to provide income, not just from retail - also brings people back into the town centre
- take the roof off, reinstate old town centre lanes and widen paths, provide 24x7 access to the site (currently we close off the centre of the town between 8.00pm-8.00am) to give the site some space to breathe
- More hotel beds and conference/exhibition space to attract more business & leisure use
It's a great vision and I can't wait for it to be put in place. Town centres have to have more people living, working and playing in them, and people's ideas of the old model of the high street or town shopping centre has to change.
Edited by prand on Wednesday 20th November 13:09
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